New Self Propelled Forage Harvester for a Farmer?

[mf7480]

Self propelled, even a little one, will make a tractor and trailed forager look daft. Will chop more grass with less grief and use less fuel into the bargain.

Can't see there is a dairy farmer in the land who can afford to spend days on end trying to make silage, it is now such an important and valuable crop to get right first time. Buy a tedder, beg, steal or borrow a big enough rake and you won't go far wrong. Throw in the wholecrop angle and your decision is made. Fill a pit in a day with time left to sheet up as well. I know of two farmers who went from trailed chopper to self propelled and never looked back.

All good points. The other thing is get it raked with a 4 rotor, it’s the single biggest thing you can do to improve output.

 

[dave mountain]

All good points. The other thing is get it raked with a 4 rotor, it’s the single biggest thing you can do to improve output.

only in light crops or with enormous chopper. most of the time 30ft is plenty, and in half decent crops you dont want any bigger as the forward speed gets so low that the pickup starts "grabbing" the grass rather than a smooth flow. i see mark troy on grassmen uses a 2 rotor to row up for a jaguar 990, for much the same reasons. my contractor uses a 4 rotor for a big krone chopper but i think he mainly does lighter crops than mine, as it was "grabbing" the grass even on my 3rd cut a couple years ago. better to keep a bit of forward speed imo.

 

[Speedstar]

only in light crops or with enormous chopper. most of the time 30ft is plenty, and in half decent crops you dont want any bigger as the forward speed gets so low that the pickup starts "grabbing" the grass rather than a smooth flow. i see mark troy on grassmen uses a 2 rotor to row up for a jaguar 990, for much the same reasons. my contractor uses a 4 rotor for a big krone chopper but i think he mainly does lighter crops than mine, as it was "grabbing" the grass even on my 3rd cut a couple years ago. better to keep a bit of forward speed imo.

we row every thing up with a 4 rotor rake & going from a 2 rotor rake we get another 20 acres per day out put & have done this for 10 years or more

 

[mf7480]

only in light crops or with enormous chopper. most of the time 30ft is plenty, and in half decent crops you dont want any bigger as the forward speed gets so low that the pickup starts "grabbing" the grass rather than a smooth flow. i see mark troy on grassmen uses a 2 rotor to row up for a jaguar 990, for much the same reasons. my contractor uses a 4 rotor for a big krone chopper but i think he mainly does lighter crops than mine, as it was "grabbing" the grass even on my 3rd cut a couple years ago. better to keep a bit of forward speed imo.

You're probably right but you'll find the majority of farms with their own gear take more, lighter cuts to maximise forage quality.

 

[YELROM]

Do 4 rotor rakes tangle the grass the same as if you double rake a row.
If we ever double rake a row of grass to finish a field in stead of having a small row you end up doing half the speed down the row

 

[mf7480]

Do 4 rotor rakes tangle the grass the same as if you double rake a row.
If we ever double rake a row of grass to finish a field in stead of having a small row you end up doing half the speed down the row

No. I guess the wrong driver could make a mess of it but a decent operator does a tidy job

 

[thesilentone]

only in light crops or with enormous chopper. most of the time 30ft is plenty, and in half decent crops you dont want any bigger as the forward speed gets so low that the pickup starts "grabbing" the grass rather than a smooth flow. i see mark troy on grassmen uses a 2 rotor to row up for a jaguar 990, for much the same reasons. my contractor uses a 4 rotor for a big krone chopper but i think he mainly does lighter crops than mine, as it was "grabbing" the grass even on my 3rd cut a couple years ago. better to keep a bit of forward speed imo.

.......or, slow the pick-up speed down relative to forward speed (which is what you are supposed to do).

 

[dave mountain]

.......or, slow the pick-up speed down relative to forward speed (which is what you are supposed to do).

That only works to a point, once you are in heavy 50ft rows you can't really stop it. On modern variable speed headers there isn't much (if any) output advantage with 50ft over 30ft anyway, unless you are in light crops. obviously there is still the advantage of less distance/speed for the trailers while filling, and potentially a lower cost of raking although that's not usually the case imo.

 

[sheepdogtrail]

You can make the figures justify it if you want to.1000 acres a year at £25/acre contractor rate.In 10 years you will have paid for a £250k machine,ok I know you will have had all the other costs,fuel ,insurance,finance etc. But there would be a considerable residual value at the end to more than cover that.

And the work would get done when it needs to get done. Not when someone gets around to it because of other commitments.

 

[mf7480]

That only works to a point, once you are in heavy 50ft rows you can't really stop it. On modern variable speed headers there isn't much (if any) output advantage with 50ft over 30ft anyway, unless you are in light crops. obviously there is still the advantage of less distance/speed for the trailers while filling, and potentially a lower cost of raking although that's not usually the case imo.

We had some done 30ft when the big rake wasn't available and it was a nuisance! Chasing around all the time, 3 times around the headland not 2, twice around trees not one. It's much easier on the kit and trailer drivers going a steadier pace. Plus 40% fewer headland turns and wheelings.

 

[thesilentone]

Just out of interest, I have run some figures on an old feasibility calculator I made years ago. let me know any views/opinions on the figures, and I will change them if needed.

Basis of the calculation: 1000 acres a year, 7 ton/acre, 80 acres a day, 10 hour days. Based on a 5 year plan NO indexing.

machine cost £250k
Labour £10.00 hour Total £6250
fuel £1.00 litre Total £28,000
depreciation yr 1-30%, yr 2 -20%, yr 3- 15%, yr 4-10%, yr 5-10% Total cost £153,610
Maintenance £3000.00/yr total £15000
residual value (5 years) £100.000

Costs £6250+£28,000+£153,000+£15,000+£250,000= £452,250

Less residual (£100,000) = £352,250

£70.45 acre or £10.00 ton

 

[dave mountain]

Just out of interest, I have run some figures on an old feasibility calculator I made years ago. let me know any views/opinions on the figures, and I will change them if needed.

Basis of the calculation: 1000 acres a year, 7 ton/acre, 80 acres a day, 10 hour days. Based on a 5 year plan NO indexing.

machine cost £250k
Labour £10.00 hour Total £6250
fuel £1.00 litre Total £28,000
depreciation yr 1-30%, yr 2 -20%, yr 3- 15%, yr 4-10%, yr 5-10% Total cost £153,610
Maintenance £3000.00/yr total £15000
residual value (5 years) £100.000

Costs £6250+£28,000+£153,000+£15,000+£250,000= £452,250

Less residual (£100,000) = £352,250

£70.45 acre or £10.00 ton

A decent spfh will p*ss 80 acres a day, but really I think you need to cost it over 10 years for it to stack up on that acreage. It won't be worked hard and will be low hours so even 15 years of reliability wouldn't be unrealistic for a machine that is farmer owned from new. If however you buy one that's been ragged for 5 years by a contractor that's a different story.

 

[thesilentone]

A decent spfh will p*ss 80 acres a day, but really I think you need to cost it over 10 years for it to stack up on that acreage. It won't be worked hard and will be low hours so even 15 years of reliability wouldn't be unrealistic for a machine that is farmer owned from new. If however you buy one that's been ragged for 5 years by a contractor that's a different story.

From a feasibility point 10 years will look better I agree. However from a financing point of view, very few would finance over that period.


Depreciation pretty well flattens out after year 4, so of course things will look better.

A good s/h @ £150,000 would cut the costs considerably to £5.00 an acre.

 

[james ds]

From a feasibility point 10 years will look better I agree. However from a financing point of view, very few would finance over that period.


Depreciation pretty well flattens out after year 4, so of course things will look better.

A good s/h @ £150,000 would cut the costs considerably to £5.00 an acre.

Buy 2 £50k harvestors and you will never be stuck. A lot of the contractors here are now running an older harvestor as back up. They can all break down , but you always need a back up plan at silage. A new harvestor is too much money for your workload.

 

[thesilentone]

Buy 2 £50k harvestors and you will never be stuck. A lot of the contractors here are now running an older harvestor as back up. They can all break down , but you always need a back up plan at silage. A new harvestor is too much money for your workload.

Do you not think you are buying to much risk, having one broken down is bad enough, having two broken down is your worst nightmare.

 

[startinghandle]

Buying a self propelled is a major undertaking you got to try and get it right first time .. bit like getting married
I am assuming you have already asked around dealers .. if you buy s/h will there be any warranty?

 

[dave mountain]

From a feasibility point 10 years will look better I agree. However from a financing point of view, very few would finance over that period.


Depreciation pretty well flattens out after year 4, so of course things will look better.

A good s/h @ £150,000 would cut the costs considerably to £5.00 an acre.

I'd much rather run a new machine for 10 years than a s/h for 5 years, even though you essentially have the same machine at the end of each (assuming the 2nd hand one was low houred ex farmer machine, good luck finding one). I see your point about finance, but if you cant afford to pay for a machine over 5 years, regardless of how long you plan to keep it, then you probably shouldn't be buying the machine in the first place.

Running 2 50k harvesters for 10 years could easily be more expensive than 1 new one for 10 years, without extreme luck. And if you were that lucky you wouldn't have needed the 2nd harvester anyway. Breakdowns and repairs, 2 lots of service costs, tyres sat perishing, higher labour costs through the lower output, time lost changing machines, another shed for it to sit in etc.

 

[e3120]

Just out of interest, I have run some figures on an old feasibility calculator I made years ago. let me know any views/opinions on the figures, and I will change them if needed.

Basis of the calculation: 1000 acres a year, 7 ton/acre, 80 acres a day, 10 hour days. Based on a 5 year plan NO indexing.

machine cost £250k
Labour £10.00 hour Total £6250
fuel £1.00 litre Total £28,000
depreciation yr 1-30%, yr 2 -20%, yr 3- 15%, yr 4-10%, yr 5-10% Total cost £153,610
Maintenance £3000.00/yr total £15000
residual value (5 years) £100.000

Costs £6250+£28,000+£153,000+£15,000+£250,000= £452,250

Less residual (£100,000) = £352,250

£70.45 acre or £10.00 ton

What's depreciation got to do with it if you've already factored in the difference between buying and selling?

 

[ollie989898]

Just out of interest, I have run some figures on an old feasibility calculator I made years ago. let me know any views/opinions on the figures, and I will change them if needed.

Basis of the calculation: 1000 acres a year, 7 ton/acre, 80 acres a day, 10 hour days. Based on a 5 year plan NO indexing.

machine cost £250k
Labour £10.00 hour Total £6250
fuel £1.00 litre Total £28,000
depreciation yr 1-30%, yr 2 -20%, yr 3- 15%, yr 4-10%, yr 5-10% Total cost £153,610
Maintenance £3000.00/yr total £15000
residual value (5 years) £100.000

Costs £6250+£28,000+£153,000+£15,000+£250,000= £452,250

Less residual (£100,000) = £352,250

£70.45 acre or £10.00 ton

These are good figures but you have not factored in the value of decent quality (organic IIRC?) silage being made and how much animal performance you would lose if you made pants silage OR had to buy in concentrates or similar to make up the shortfall. That kind of problem stings you for months- all winter even.

For a serious dairy farm that is making 1000 acres of silage a year I'd get one of the baby Krone machines and make top notch silage, 5 years of it being put through the spout will make a new forager look very very cheap.

80 acres a day is half a days work for a modern self propelled!! Start at 10am finish at 6pm type deal.

 

[ollie989898]

All good points. The other thing is get it raked with a 4 rotor, it’s the single biggest thing you can do to improve output.

Realised this the other day, was following a 960 around, it has been over 10 years since I worked alongside a chopper, made the old 870 I used to work with look slow- the 960 would lift 50ft swaths as fast as the old would lift 30ft!