New Self Propelled Forage Harvester for a Farmer?

[freelancer]

Hi, i personally think modern SPFH are fare too big in comparison to clamp dimensions on many farms und trailer capacities in gras. Seen this many times the last years, that the SPFH is spending far more time waiting for a trailer than filling it. Even wit 3x 40 cube metre trailers or 2x 65 cube trailers on very short distances. On larger distances even 4, 5 or 6 trailers are not enough to keep the expensive unit runnig...

 

[KennyO]

Just out of interest, I have run some figures on an old feasibility calculator I made years ago. let me know any views/opinions on the figures, and I will change them if needed.

Basis of the calculation: 1000 acres a year, 7 ton/acre, 80 acres a day, 10 hour days. Based on a 5 year plan NO indexing.

machine cost £250k
Labour £10.00 hour Total £6250
fuel £1.00 litre Total £28,000
depreciation yr 1-30%, yr 2 -20%, yr 3- 15%, yr 4-10%, yr 5-10% Total cost £153,610
Maintenance £3000.00/yr total £15000
residual value (5 years) £100.000

Costs £6250+£28,000+£153,000+£15,000+£250,000= £452,250

Less residual (£100,000) = £352,250

£70.45 acre or £10.00 ton

What's depreciation got to do with it if you've already factored in the difference between buying and selling?

Correct @e3120 you either estimate depreciation as a percentage of capital cost or calculate true cost of purchase minus sale cost.
Ownership cost has been counted twice in this example.

 

[mf7480]

Just out of interest, I have run some figures on an old feasibility calculator I made years ago. let me know any views/opinions on the figures, and I will change them if needed.

Basis of the calculation: 1000 acres a year, 7 ton/acre, 80 acres a day, 10 hour days. Based on a 5 year plan NO indexing.

machine cost £250k
Labour £10.00 hour Total £6250
fuel £1.00 litre Total £28,000
depreciation yr 1-30%, yr 2 -20%, yr 3- 15%, yr 4-10%, yr 5-10% Total cost £153,610
Maintenance £3000.00/yr total £15000
residual value (5 years) £100.000

Costs £6250+£28,000+£153,000+£15,000+£250,000= £452,250

Less residual (£100,000) = £352,250

£70.45 acre or £10.00 ton

Yes, you’ve counted depreciation twice

It should be 6250+28000+15000+250000
= £299250

Less £100k residual= £199250

£40/ac- still plenty

I think that’s very worst case scenario. You’re putting 80 acres/ day against a £250k machine. Reality is 150 acres/ day. A £185k machine would still be easily doing 120.

 

[kiwi pom]

If you can afford to do it buy a new one, chuck a good driver on it, look after it well and it will run 10 -15 seasons without too much hassle on your acreage.
It's a silly thing to skimp on really when you think about its potential affect on profitability.
There's plenty of much smaller dairy farmers spend over 100k on a fancy Fendt or Deere that's way too big and over spec'd for them, just to spread a bit of fert, ted some grass and spread some muck on a small grass farm. They never question the cost.
Go for it

 

[mf7480]

Bad silage is costing farmers a lot of money | FGinsight.com

What is the true cost of bad silage?

www.fginsight.com

This is where the real cost savings are. The difference in purchased feed cost between 10me silage and 11.5 is over 3ppl. I guess the OP might be milking 400 cows at say 9000l. 3.6M litres x 3ppl= a saving of £126,000/ year. This is quite an extreme example, you’d be pretty unfortunate to make 10ME silage, but it’s an illustration of how much feed costs can be reduced by improving the quality of the forage.

 

[Speedstar]

That only works to a point, once you are in heavy 50ft rows you can't really stop it. On modern variable speed headers there isn't much (if any) output advantage with 50ft over 30ft anyway, unless you are in light crops. obviously there is still the advantage of less distance/speed for the trailers while filling, and potentially a lower cost of raking although that's not usually the case imo.

Yes therte is a big out put difference with a 4 rotor rake in a big crop , we never use our 2 rotor rake now for rowing up in front of the forager in any crops

 

[thesilentone]

Scenario 2. based on three year plan

Good s/h SP @ £150,000
100 acres a day
7 ton acre
10 hour days

Costs.

Machine @ £150,000

Labour @ £15.00hr = £4500

Depreciation (@ £52,800)

Fuel @ £1.00 litre = £16,800

Maintenance @ £9,000

Total: £180,300

Residual: £97,200

Costs = £83,100

£27.70 acre

£3.95 ton

Edited 12.03pm

 

[mf7480]

Scenario 2. based on three year plan

Good s/h SP @ £150,000
100 acres a day
7 ton acre
10 hour days

Costs.

Labour @ £15.00hr = £4500

Depreciation @ £52,800

Fuel @ £1.00 litre = £16,800

Maintenance @ £9,000

Total: £83,100

Residual: £47,200

Costs = £35,900

£11.97 acre

£1.71 ton

I don’t think the maths there is quite right

 

[thesilentone]

I don’t think the maths there is quite right

Explain

 

[mf7480]

Explain

You can’t add the residual back in when you’re only costing the depreciation in the first place.

Also diesel isn’t £1.00/ litre

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Explain

How can you have a residual of £47k on a £150k machine with depreciation of £53k?

 

[thesilentone]

How can you have a residual of £47k on a £150k machine with depreciation of £53k?

oops, correct, I deducted from 100k instead of 150..............

figures changed.....

 

[Sanchez]

There is definitely a market for a 400hp farmer spec Forager, i’m in a similar situation to yourself but acerage is slightly smaller.

most modern foragers now are spec laden and its getting worse.

i’ve been strongly considering a reverse drive Kempe forager, the C3000, pairing it with a used Xerion, Fendt 900 or even Valtra ‘S’ series, have nothing big enough to power one at the moment, i’m finding it easier to justify the spend when the power unit might be more usable, even if significantly bigger than we already have, also playing into my thinking is swapping the 6m mower combination for and 8/9m reverse drive setup to maximise the usage of the power unit.

APH used to sell a totally refurbished NH 8000 series combine. I’d strongly consider something similar in a 20/30 year old SP if it were a true nuts and bolts restoration.

 

[dave mountain]

There is definitely a market for a 400hp farmer spec Forager, i’m in a similar situation to yourself but acerage is slightly smaller.

most modern foragers now are spec laden and its getting worse.

i’ve been strongly considering a reverse drive Kempe forager, the C3000, pairing it with a used Xerion, Fendt 900 or even Valtra ‘S’ series, have nothing big enough to power one at the moment, i’m finding it easier to justify the spend when the power unit might be more usable, even if significantly bigger than we already have, also playing into my thinking is swapping the 6m mower combination for and 8/9m reverse drive setup to maximise the usage of the power unit.

APH used to sell a totally refurbished NH 8000 series combine. I’d strongly consider something similar in a 20/30 year old SP if it were a true nuts and bolts restoration.

I sort of agree, but I think it's another one of those things farmers say they want then don't actually buy, along with basic spec tractors, basic spec pickups etc.

 

[ollie989898]

There is definitely a market for a 400hp farmer spec Forager, i’m in a similar situation to yourself but acerage is slightly smaller.

most modern foragers now are spec laden and its getting worse.

i’ve been strongly considering a reverse drive Kempe forager, the C3000, pairing it with a used Xerion, Fendt 900 or even Valtra ‘S’ series, have nothing big enough to power one at the moment, i’m finding it easier to justify the spend when the power unit might be more usable, even if significantly bigger than we already have, also playing into my thinking is swapping the 6m mower combination for and 8/9m reverse drive setup to maximise the usage of the power unit.

APH used to sell a totally refurbished NH 8000 series combine. I’d strongly consider something similar in a 20/30 year old SP if it were a true nuts and bolts restoration.

Would a 400hp tractor and reverse drive forager have comparable output to a small self propelled though?

How much is the smallest Krone? Throw in having to cut wholecrop and you can soon see why farmers are buying up a forager.

The trouble with a 400hp tractor is then what else will you do with outside of the silage season? They aren't cheap to run for a reason.

 

[thesilentone]

There is definitely a market for a 400hp farmer spec Forager, i’m in a similar situation to yourself but acerage is slightly smaller.

most modern foragers now are spec laden and its getting worse.

i’ve been strongly considering a reverse drive Kempe forager, the C3000, pairing it with a used Xerion, Fendt 900 or even Valtra ‘S’ series, have nothing big enough to power one at the moment, i’m finding it easier to justify the spend when the power unit might be more usable, even if significantly bigger than we already have, also playing into my thinking is swapping the 6m mower combination for and 8/9m reverse drive setup to maximise the usage of the power unit.

APH used to sell a totally refurbished NH 8000 series combine. I’d strongly consider something similar in a 20/30 year old SP if it were a true nuts and bolts restoration.

Take care.

The Kemper lacks overall physical capacity. The feed-rollers are not wide enough, or have the travel to utilise the power you are talking about.

In addition, changing the pto rotation costs allot of energy, and output.

I would look for good s/h SP, Kemper lack knowledge of grass harvesting.

 

[puntabrava]

get a similar machine to run along side what you have got.....one breaks down go get the other.... headers inter change ect

New Holland FX375 Forager (ST11480) | RJ and KD McLean Ltd – Tractors and Plant

 

[kiwi pom]

New Holland FX375 Forager (ST11480) | RJ and KD McLean Ltd – Tractors and Plant

God I remember when they first came out, the biggest pile of s**t you've ever seen, couldn't get a day out of them without a breakdown.
Perhaps by 98 they were better?

 

[ollie989898]

God I remember when they first came out, the biggest pile of s**t you've ever seen, couldn't get a day out of them without a breakdown.
Perhaps by 98 they were better?

Were the newer FX40/FX50/FX60 etc any better?

 

[kiwi pom]

Were the newer FX40/FX50/FX60 etc any better?

They must have been because NH still sell foragers.
If I remember right the FX's were prone to going up in smoke.