New stockbull Breed

[HillLuing]

We currebtly run 4 Angus Bulls, a Simmental and a Belgian Blue X Limi bull!

We are going to get rid of the Blue X as his calves have to much variance in them for what we want (mainly to sell store off him)!

We were considering looking to get an easy calving Charolais or another simmental as the one we have throws caves that do well as Stores and we also keep some of his heifers

Main question is How easy are the "easy" calving charlys now a days???

Calve 200 here and do it mostly myself so aim to have average sized calves with as little assistance being required

 

[juke]

Been a big push by breeders for easy calving within the charolais breed, some of the popular easy calving bulls leave quite plain looking stock

 

[Hilly]

Out of Luing cows ?

 

[HillLuing]

My bad, meant to say we run a mix of Angus X cows, Limi X Fresian cows and some limi x and simi x cows!

 

[MJT]

Been a big push by breeders for easy calving within the charolais breed, some of the popular easy calving bulls leave quite plain looking stock

Agree with this ^ if you breed a Charolais bull that’s easy calving but the offspring lacks the power thickness and shape of a Charolais then it’s defeating the object a tad, might as well use a different breed.

 

[AftonShepherd]

Was once told by a Charolais breeder that if a bull calf didn't need pulled, you were as well putting a ring on it there and then. Might have changed a bit now though

 

[JP1]

Know a few who've been pleased with Cockerington Charolais and calving ease too

pollcharolais.co.uk

 

[GenuineRisk]

We are going to get rid of the Blue X as his calves have to much variance in them for what we want (mainly to sell store off him)!

Why you’d be surprised about that I don’t know ! That said, good luck with whatever you get as a replacement.

 

[HillLuing]

Why you’d be surprised about that I don’t know ! That said, good luck with whatever you get as a replacement.

We knew there would be a bit of variance but not as much as what he throws!

We have used him 3 times now and 2 of those times were on the same batch of cows as we were pretty happy with his calves but the next year they were totally different!

Was just an experiment and tbh it has worked just not to suit us

 

[liammogs]

We knew there would be a bit of variance but not as much as what he throws!

We have used him 3 times now and 2 of those times were on the same batch of cows as we were pretty happy with his calves but the next year they were totally different!

Was just an experiment and tbh it has worked just not to suit us

Problem using a crossbred bull, he could throw more to the blue one year the lim the next.....clicks with one cow doesnt abither!! See it alot with cross bred rams but the only difference in sheep compared to cattle is the value of the calves compared to lambs your not talk £10, could be 100s in difference!! If your using lim cows why not try a pure Blue? Your calves be more consistent and the added bonus of any heifer calves you might tempt the 'show calf boys' for repacment cows as witha charly be it steer or heifer its only one way they go!!

 

[CharcoalWally]

Agree with this ^ if you breed a Charolais bull that’s easy calving but the offspring lacks the power thickness and shape of a Charolais then it’s defeating the object a tad, might as well use a different breed.

A dead calf at birth also defeats the object . Two or three dead calves soon blows a massive hole in the income .

It's been years since I had Charolais calves here, but surely the breed can't be that bad that it's as polarised for calving as this ?

If it is, then I would agree with @MJT that you might as well work with another breed.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Was once told by a Charolais breeder that if a bull calf didn't need pulled, you were as well putting a ring on it there and then. Might have changed a bit now though

Hopefully these breeders are either dying out or are changing their tune because the commercial farmer has probably never been as concious of calving ease and problems as they are today

 

[MJT]

A dead calf at birth also defeats the object . Two or three dead calves soon blows a massive hole in the income .

It's been years since I had Charolais calves here, but surely the breed can't be that bad that it's as polarised for calving as this ?

If it is, then I would agree with @MJT that you might as well work with another breed.

I was meaning they needed to focus on smaller birth weights and reducing gestation period much like the blues have done . Rather than a narrower plainer calf .

 

[juke]

I don't want to say too much but these last few years been pulling a lot more limousin calves than we have charolais. used to be the other wayround the balance is changing white power is back on the rise, anyone selling store cattle must see this...
birth weights aren't the biggest issue with charolais, can have plenty weight with a long calf .the problems come from people buying bulls with muckle shoulders n heads more than anything else, I wouldn't get to focused on calving scores use it as part of your decision making process but certainly not the be all of bull buying don't really want to get into the whole ebv thing for the hundredth time

 

[Bill dog]

Know a few who've been pleased with Cockerington Charolais and calving ease too

pollcharolais.co.uk

My brother just bought a bull from these guys. They sent a dvd of sale bulls up with an attached price list. Straight forward way of dealing , and bulls look great .

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Its always about the bull.... use a double muscled bull with calves born at 60 kilo on a cow with a large pelvis that feeds herself as well as calf and doesn't lay fat on calf and no issue what so ever. Im not selling the real top end of suckled calves but best make 1300, you see many selling suckled calves from easy calving bulls ( generally no shape and poor weights) at less than cost of keeping cow, whats the point in that. If you know and view cows well you should barely lose a calf at birth, always have an odd scour or broken leg but birthing I don't see why you should lose more than an unfortunate one, gain value of 200/300 on a calf at 8/9 months I don't see the importance and insistence that you have to use an easy calving bull with great ebvs. Lost one calf at birth so far this year, an angus ai bull with as good a figures as you will see for calving, unlike me but for this reason didn't get up to see her at 3, saw her at 5 with a leg back and head slightly twisted, real small calf and she had room galore, think head twisted the issue as would have calved with leg back. But you hear so much of use this and that, but the figures state most suckler men lose money, appreciate freak weather and tb can play on figures, but if you are losing or struggling to make money on current suckled calf or store prices then you are doing something seriously wrong in my opinion

 

[AGN76]

I don't want to say too much but these last few years been pulling a lot more limousin calves than we have charolais. used to be the other wayround the balance is changing white power is back on the rise, anyone selling store cattle must see this...
birth weights aren't the biggest issue with charolais, can have plenty weight with a long calf .the problems come from people buying bulls with muckle shoulders n heads more than anything else, I wouldn't get to focused on calving scores use it as part of your decision making process but certainly not the be all of bull buying don't really want to get into the whole ebv thing for the hundredth time

I agree with this, I've said on here a few times, the Limousin breed is heading down a cul de sac. It's going to become a hard calving terminal sire. It seems to have started with one hard calving, poor locomotion, poor milking ability bull. This bull appears in nearly all back pedigrees now.

 

[GenuineRisk]

I don't want to say too much but these last few years been pulling a lot more limousin calves than we have charolais. used to be the other wayround the balance is changing white power is back on the rise, anyone selling store cattle must see this...
birth weights aren't the biggest issue with charolais, can have plenty weight with a long calf .the problems come from people buying bulls with muckle shoulders n heads more than anything else, I wouldn't get to focused on calving scores use it as part of your decision making process but certainly not the be all of bull buying don't really want to get into the whole ebv thing for the hundredth time

Well, of course you will - look at the current fashion in Lims and they have become red Blues BUT with a much larger frame, heavier bone, longer gestation and not the quiet temperament a Blue has. So very large calves are becoming far more common and they are fast heading to the same place Blues were some 15-20 years ago....!

The other point to make, part of @Lovegoodstock ’s post above, is getting the above average prices for better stock takes more effort from the stockman. That monitoring of your calving cows for those better quality calves, whether suckler or dairy, should be paying you back in higher prices for calves or stores. That’s not acceptable or possible for some, for others it’s a completely normal approach ! But it’s pretty unrealistic to expect a bull to put that extra £150-£300 on your stirks without you putting in the time to ensure maximum productivity come calving, with dry cows correctly managed and a good eye when they calve. Ultimately, it’s about trusting who you buy your bulls from. Whatever the breed. Good breeders about in all breeds and it pays to make the effort when buying what is going to be half your herd for next x number of years!

 

[Henarar]

I don't want to say too much but these last few years been pulling a lot more limousin calves than we have charolais.

I agree with this, I've said on here a few times, the Limousin breed is heading down a cul de sac.

your not the only ones to say this, nart worse for a breed than breeders, one ped lim herd cuts the lot out, apparently worth to much to chance it FFS whats the point of a hard calving Lim ? calving used to be their upside calf would fall out and grow well so you put up with the trouble, mind you half of them are not entirely lims are they

 

[Nithsdale]

We currebtly run 4 Angus Bulls, a Simmental and a Belgian Blue X Limi bull!

We are going to get rid of the Blue X as his calves have to much variance in them for what we want (mainly to sell store off him)!

We were considering looking to get an easy calving Charolais or another simmental as the one we have throws caves that do well as Stores and we also keep some of his heifers

Main question is How easy are the "easy" calving charlys now a days???

Calve 200 here and do it mostly myself so aim to have average sized calves with as little assistance being required

I presume it's mostly Luing cattle?
IMO you should be looking at another Simmental and nothing else. You already know the SimLuings sell very well as stores, you've already said you keep some of the heifers so this widens the pool for you to choose from aswell as giving you flexibility to sell some heifers in the breeding ring too.

Using a 2nd Simmy will also give you more calves of the same type, making batching for sale much easier - nobody likes stores going through as singles...