New to ploghing and need some help, not competition ploughing

[keredg]

Hi all, first i would like to apologise if this is not the right section.
My tractor is a JD 2035 highcrop 72hp.
The plough I have is a reversable single row Lacasta manual 14", it came with the tractor although the previous owner had never used it, looks pretty new with no damage i an see.
Spec, 45cm depth, 45cm width, 138cm between points and weighs 345kg and is rated for a tractor from 55 to 70hp.
Having land and the restrictions of full lockdown we decided to plant some potatoes
The problem I am having is that when i do the second row the width of cut is too wide and a thin strip is left unturned, it basically looks like an already planted potato field. From doing some research it seams my wheel base is not set correctly and is too wide for the plough.
On the tractor I am almost on the narrowest setting which gives me 110cm inside to inside, this will give me 55cm that i need to have if i understand correctly.
Do i need to change to a bigger or double row plough to get it to plough correctly or is there anything I can adjust to get this oneto work properly.
The way i have it setup is both liftarms same length, I made a short trench then put my wheels into it and leveled the plough to 90° to the ground, also the drawbar is horizontal to the ground,
I used to use a very small tractor to plough but have sold it having a bigger one.
Am i on the right track to solve my problem, any help apreciated.
thanks
Derek

 

[JeremyD]

Can you adjust front furrow width by sliding it over on headstock? Sounds like it needs moving over towards tractor wheel? Should be taking 14 inches of ground each time.

 

[keredg]

Hi, thanks for the response, no I can't move the head over but it can be swung slightly, head staying fixed but the tail end can move over. This is the plough. I can also move the arms over but that would mean it would be more over to one side going the other way. The link is in spanish but you can see it and numbers in the table. mine is manual and a lot hevier than the hydraulic.
I took out the pins in the head that stop it swinging to see what happened and it followed me perfectly centred(the bar) but was a pain to turn over.

 

[keredg]

Could it be here at the rear?

These pins allow the bar to swing left and right on the headstock

On the first picture its fully closed in line with the main bar, the pin is out of sight, if i move the pin a couple of holes the chisel point will move to the left, will this cause the blade to pull left? and cut closer to the wheel.
This is all new to me after being 40 years farming the sea.

thanks
Derek

 

[Tonym]

By looking at the photos your front furrow width is controlled by swinging the furrow in arc by using the semi circle of holes. Swing the point towards unploughed land for wider or towards the furrow for narrower.

 

[keredg]

Ok thanks, in that case the way it is atmo is on narrowest setting I'll give it a try this week if the weather holds, the place in mind is almost chest high in weeds so I'll have to chop that down first. I'll try to remember to take photos that might help diagnose.
cheers
Derek

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Is the check chains or stablelizers both slack on the tractor lift arms, and not holding it to one side

 

[keredg]

Yes both stabalizers have play in them, enough to give about a foot of movement of the MB end, is that enough or too much. Also I have a hydraulic toplink that is set so it floats so the depth control can work properly and only get wieght on when i lift out to turn over.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Could it be here at the rear?

These pins allow the bar to swing left and right on the headstock

On the first picture its fully closed in line with the main bar, the pin is out of sight, if i move the pin a couple of holes the chisel point will move to the left, will this cause the blade to pull left? and cut closer to the wheel.
This is all new to me after being 40 years farming the sea.

thanks
Derek

looks like it could do with a bit of work on it with a flappy disc on a small angle grinder to shine it up a bit, will be less draft and it will scour better, that means soil will not stick so much and it will turn the soil over with better effect...

 

[keredg]

The photo is one i had

A bit more polished now, especially the bottom one as I moved it over manually with the swaychains and used the same side to get finished as I still had to till before the planter arrived, It looked like it was planted with potatoes after I finished ploughing before tilling I had to do a few passes with the tiller to try to get the unturned ridge between each furrow to be plantable.
It turns the ground pretty well even though it was a bit wet, in fact it works pretty good all round other than the table width problem.
A quick question, I've heard a badly set plough can actually steer the tractor, which part of the plough steers it left and right, is it the groung pushing on the moldboard or is it the landside and landside heal sideplate that stop it moving over once in line with the tractor.
thanks
Derek

 

[keredg]

Nobody knows which part helps steers a plough? apart from the tractor.

 

[curlietailz]

If it works fine one way.... you could “get by “ by using in as a conventional plough and doing it the “old fashioned way” for now

I loved opening up

 

[2wheels]

when i were a lad (16 ) we had a new ransomes plough almost exactly like that. don't push the share points out too far, lenghten your top link a wee bit and have a play with the width control bar on the lower links and i see you have furrow width ajustment on the beam which the ransomes didn't have. on hard ground our one tended to run wide. you could maybe cut a bit off the landside so the plough can respond to pressure on the mouldboard which would allow it to run slightly narrower. i am now 74 so really digging up memories here.

 

[2wheels]

sorry, see you dont have width ajustment on the beam, the bracket with the holes is for a wheel i think.

 

[arcobob]

Somebody will tell me that this theory is wrong but having struggled years ago with a single furrow Ransomes reversible that could be set to plough correctly one way and pulled the tractor all over the place going the other I can have some sympathy. Clearly the tractor wheels were set incorrectly.
Try aligning the plough on level ground directly behind the centre of the tractor. Lower the plough and mark the ground along the landside. Lift up and turn the plough over and lower marking along the other landside.. Measure the distance between the two marks and divide by two. This will give the offset measurement from the centre for each furrow. Add the furrow width, in this case 45cm and multiply the total by two. This will give the correct setting for the tractor wheels measured between the tyres. The wheels should be set the same inside width front and back as near as possible.
Set correctly the plough should naturally run straight and produce furrows of the same width in both directions.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

your problem stems from 1 of 3 things wrong with the plough,

problem 1, could be that one of the knife coulters is bent towards ploughing or towards land,
this will cut to leave a void or cause the body to run hard to land,

problem 2, counld be a bend in the leg or body, and thus the land slide is not steering the plough as it does on the other side, on the side that is running far to wide, you need to put some packing (thin steel) between the landslide and body at the rear bolt, dont put any thing in the front or middle bolt, this will mean that pushing the tail of landslide out to land the pressure will make the plough run to ploughing and take a less furrow, the amount you need to put in will be trial and error,

problem 3, the length of the tractor link arms must be the same, if one is a little longer, then it will throw the plough to plough wide on way, and narrow the other,

wheel settings will not make it plough wide on way or narrow the other way, it would be the same both ways, unless the wheel settings and different from side to side,

 

[arcobob]

your problem stems from 1 of 3 things wrong with the plough,

problem 1, could be that one of the knife coulters is bent towards ploughing or towards land,
this will cut to leave a void or cause the body to run hard to land,

problem 2, counld be a bend in the leg or body, and thus the land slide is not steering the plough as it does on the other side, on the side that is running far to wide, you need to put some packing (thin steel) between the landslide and body at the rear bolt, dont put any thing in the front or middle bolt, this will mean that pushing the tail of landslide out to land the pressure will make the plough run to ploughing and take a less furrow, the amount you need to put in will be trial and error,

problem 3, the length of the tractor link arms must be the same, if one is a little longer, then it will throw the plough to plough wide on way, and narrow the other,

wheel settings will not make it plough wide on way or narrow the other way, it would be the same both ways, unless the wheel settings and different from side to side,

I take your point but my experience was with a Nuffield straight out of the factory and a brand new plough. The problem with these primitive reversibles is that what you add to one side in width you take away from the other. The only way to alter furrow width significantly is to alter the tractor wheel settings. All match ploughman know that best results are achieved by setting the plough to run in harmony, thus not constrained.

 

[keredg]

Thanks for all the interest and replies, I now have a few things to try.
A couple of notes, the plough make wide furrows in both directions
I have the plough dead centre so when I turn it over its the same both sides.
Rear inside wheelbase is 110cm, i have only 1 narrower position.
This plough has no place for wheel and is not even made by the manufacturer
I have tried tightening up the stabalizers to stop sideways movement and also very slack both sides to let it move, both ways it follows the tractor dead centre or near enough.
The toplink is always slack as its part of the turning mecanism and also needs to be as the tractor depth control is by the arms not toplink controled.
Both arms are the same length to within 5mm although there is a bit of play in the balls on either end.
The stabalisers are solid not chains so work opposite
The set of arced holes on the rear is the only adjustment I have not tried to move(needs some heat to slacken bolts) its set so that the land-side is perfectly in line with the main bar and hence the tractor, the only adjustment I can make is to point it towards the land side wheel as its fully adjusted the opposite way(won't go past centre) it pivots on the rear of the main body that is why i asked about which part steers the plough, the MB or land-side, my thoughts were if i moved a couple of holes on the arc the chisel point and land-side would point towards the land side wheel and thus start to narrow the width of the furrow till there was no more travel then go strait, repeating this till i get what i wanted. I need to wait for weather as its been raining and snowing the last few days but now its drying up. Maybe i'll get a try tomorrow.
thanks again all
Derek

 

[keredg]

I have just been doing some more measuring now that its stopped raining.
At a quick glance the land-side looks to be perfectly in line with the main bar when in fact its very slightly pointing towards the furrow, I think this together with the bit of wear in the arm balls linkages etc may make the plow pull away from the land side wheel and create a wider furrow than it should be.

I also marked a line where the land-side touches the ground, turned it over and did it again and got 10.5cm that added to 2 x 45cm gives me 100.5cm wheel width and i have them set at just under 110cm inner to inner, less if i measure at the bottom where the tyres are flat with the wieght ? and means I am about 9.5 cm too wide on the wheelbase, will that make much difference at less than 5cm a side. I'm getting exited for tomorrow, and at my age (62)? thanks again.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I have just been doing some more measuring now that its stopped raining.
At a quick glance the land-side looks to be perfectly in line with the main bar when in fact its very slightly pointing towards the furrow, I think this together with the bit of wear in the arm balls linkages etc may make the plow pull away from the land side wheel and create a wider furrow than it should be.

I also marked a line where the land-side touches the ground, turned it over and did it again and got 10.5cm that added to 2 x 45cm gives me 100.5cm wheel width and i have them set at just under 110cm inner to inner, less if i measure at the bottom where the tyres are flat with the wieght ? and means I am about 9.5 cm too wide on the wheelbase, will that make much difference at less than 5cm a side. I'm getting exited for tomorrow, and at my age (62)? thanks again.

Is your front wheels at the same or less between the tyres compared to back, ?
If wider than back, this will cause a wide furrow, check them too

The landslide needs to be a little further from the furrow at back, and little closer to furrow at front