new varieties to re-seed- grass and cereals

What would help me change the variety I sow?

  • Its what the seed rep recommends

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Its the advice of others on the Farming Forum

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • Price

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Ive looked through the catalogue and the recommended list- its my choice

    Votes: 23 82.1%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

sylgen

Member
Location
Cwm-Morgan
one issue is that grassland isnt seen as a crop in the same way that cereals are- when we choose a new cereal variety the choice is based on scores for disease resistance, yield figures, lodging and lots of money and time on preparation- then if the variety performs well and grain yield is good we know we've made a good choice- that year within months of making the choice of which variety to sow. but grass is different- its longer term and the results arnt so easy to interpret- i dont sell grass like I could sell grain- i sell the next thing removed from that- meat yield which depends on the grass- but could it (meat yield) be better if I changed the grass variety i use???
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
You say you grow grass to produce meat, therefore I assume you pick the best genetics available for that animal. Choosing a grass mixture is exactly the same, choose a mixture containing up to date varieties with genetics bred (RGCL Booklet) towards UK growing conditions these consistently show improved yields of 0.5% year on year.

The RGCL booklet is very helpful in this respect over 70% of farmers use it when choosing a grass mixture and don't forget the listing for disease resistance.

Your management is the key to a good grass ley by keeping quality grass in front of the animal with little or no seed heads, good clover content and high leaf to stem ratio.

Price is the last thing to ask, until you have all the relevant information you can't make an informed decision on if the mixture is good value for money, invariably the mixtures containing the newer varieties will command a premium.
 
Me because I am absolutely amazing and since I no longer derive any income from selling seed I am 110% trustworthy.

But I would prefer to walk the dirt myself first.


PS Just because it is in the grass variety guide does not mean it commercially available or foolproof. There are caveats for some varieties that you will only know because you have used them previously.
 
one issue is that grassland isnt seen as a crop in the same way that cereals are- when we choose a new cereal variety the choice is based on scores for disease resistance, yield figures, lodging and lots of money and time on preparation- then if the variety performs well and grain yield is good we know we've made a good choice- that year within months of making the choice of which variety to sow. but grass is different- its longer term and the results arnt so easy to interpret- i dont sell grass like I could sell grain- i sell the next thing removed from that- meat yield which depends on the grass- but could it (meat yield) be better if I changed the grass variety i use???

I see grass as the most important crop in my area, always have done.
 

Kevtherev

Member
Location
Welshpool Powys
one issue is that grassland isnt seen as a crop in the same way that cereals are- when we choose a new cereal variety the choice is based on scores for disease resistance, yield figures, lodging and lots of money and time on preparation- then if the variety performs well and grain yield is good we know we've made a good choice- that year within months of making the choice of which variety to sow. but grass is different- its longer term and the results arnt so easy to interpret- i dont sell grass like I could sell grain- i sell the next thing removed from that- meat yield which depends on the grass- but could it (meat yield) be better if I changed the grass variety i use???

What varieties are you growing now?
Any clover?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Because I'm a bit different, and like things to work for me (not the other way roond) mixture and diversity are keys (in my opinion)
Each variety will have it's day in the sun, so I always advise as much variety in the mix as a farmer feels comfortable with.
It sounds horribly cynical- but it depends how expensive you want farming to be!

One species of grass and one white clover is great, if every season has perfect growing conditions..... if not, then diversity is key.

More diversity = more reliability
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
one issue is that grassland isnt seen as a crop in the same way that cereals are- when we choose a new cereal variety the choice is based on scores for disease resistance, yield figures, lodging and lots of money and time on preparation- then if the variety performs well and grain yield is good we know we've made a good choice- that year within months of making the choice of which variety to sow. but grass is different- its longer term and the results arnt so easy to interpret- i dont sell grass like I could sell grain- i sell the next thing removed from that- meat yield which depends on the grass- but could it (meat yield) be better if I changed the grass variety i use???
They are very good points and intelligent questions - meat production I feel is greatly influenced simply by a continual supply of protein - grasses are low protein feeds.
Legumes are much more valuable - as far as both N fixation and food value go.
I'd happily trade 5 grass species out of my pastures for another 5 legumes, my main considerations are:
Continuity of supply - species that can reproduce themselves without losing quality, and overlapping different species to provide growth throughout the year
Soil history - fertility and previous cultivation history, obviously soil health is more important than nearly all other factors combined
Climatic factors, and farm management policies.

On one hand you will have farmers completely fixated on yield, how many bales per paddock and hang the cost; and then you will have on the other hand those who would rather just grow grass in the winter and have sheep on it.. so the recommendations are completely different per farmer, and how expensive they like their farm to be.
I think your philosophy on cereal choice has painted me a picture that you are perhaps more in line with my own way of thinking - grassland is much more than just a stockfeed and something to look at ripping up.
Definitely look beyond ryegrass though.

Seed is the cheapest part of the farming operation - if you get it right it's also the most valuable!
 

dogjon

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Western Oregon
Do you know what was in the original grass mix and is there anything still looking happy or dominant? I'm in a low input system and not really into fighting with mother nature. You can (and should maybe) look for the latest and greatest but there is something to be said for dancing with the one who brung you.
 

JD-Kid

Member
one big thing is picking grasses to grow when the feed is needed and can be converted in to meat milk etc etc at the cheepest price
types that handle the areas and soil types weather stock types etc etc
some reps know areas well and can make up good mixes others may know a type grows well in a diffrent area yet will be useless in other areas
 

sylgen

Member
Location
Cwm-Morgan
What varieties are you growing now?
Any clover?
Bit of a mixture really- we've used Western Seeds from John Faulconbridge which have been good- the BONUS long term ley has got good varieities in it- mostly Aber and plenty of clover. Cotswolds Seeds too- their herbal ley was good for a few years and Oliver Seeds- their Claymore mix performed well- so we shop around a good bit and I see leys as being specific for what we want them to do- silage- grazing. The one thing I want to do more of though is have a more diverse ley- any ideas?
 

sylgen

Member
Location
Cwm-Morgan
Because I'm a bit different, and like things to work for me (not the other way roond) mixture and diversity are keys (in my opinion)
Each variety will have it's day in the sun, so I always advise as much variety in the mix as a farmer feels comfortable with.
It sounds horribly cynical- but it depends how expensive you want farming to be!

One species of grass and one white clover is great, if every season has perfect growing conditions..... if not, then diversity is key.

More diversity = more reliability
I think Im begining to think along the same lines- a couple of seed merchants seem to have more diversity in their mixes- we've had good results with Cotswold Seeds herbal ley and I see Oliver seeds do a Landmark Permanent ley that interests me- its got the PRG but also fescues and herbs
 

sylgen

Member
Location
Cwm-Morgan
They are very good points and intelligent questions - meat production I feel is greatly influenced simply by a continual supply of protein - grasses are low protein feeds.
Legumes are much more valuable - as far as both N fixation and food value go.
I'd happily trade 5 grass species out of my pastures for another 5 legumes, my main considerations are:
Continuity of supply - species that can reproduce themselves without losing quality, and overlapping different species to provide growth throughout the year
Soil history - fertility and previous cultivation history, obviously soil health is more important than nearly all other factors combined
Climatic factors, and farm management policies.

On one hand you will have farmers completely fixated on yield, how many bales per paddock and hang the cost; and then you will have on the other hand those who would rather just grow grass in the winter and have sheep on it.. so the recommendations are completely different per farmer, and how expensive they like their farm to be.
I think your philosophy on cereal choice has painted me a picture that you are perhaps more in line with my own way of thinking - grassland is much more than just a stockfeed and something to look at ripping up.
Definitely look beyond ryegrass though.

Seed is the cheapest part of the farming operation - if you get it right it's also the most valuable!
Agree- soil health is the key factor- how do we match the soil to the right varieites that grow best? should we be making our grass mixture choice based more on what our soils are telling us? can we improve or change our soil health by changing the grass mixture we put in?
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
Agree- soil health is the key factor- how do we match the soil to the right varieites that grow best? should we be making our grass mixture choice based more on what our soils are telling us? can we improve or change our soil health by changing the grass mixture we put in?
You can enhance your soil health by adding Mycorrhizal Fungi to the grass seed mix.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Bit of a mixture really- we've used Western Seeds from John Faulconbridge which have been good- the BONUS long term ley has got good varieities in it- mostly Aber and plenty of clover. Cotswolds Seeds too- their herbal ley was good for a few years and Oliver Seeds- their Claymore mix performed well- so we shop around a good bit and I see leys as being specific for what we want them to do- silage- grazing. The one thing I want to do more of though is have a more diverse ley- any ideas?
I like western seeds for their inclusion of modern grasses & Cotswold seeds for their herbal mixes , so normally buy the mixture off western seeds & add a kg an acre of Cotswold seeds herbal in the broadcaster. Seems to work ok.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,293
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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