New Zealand food standards and farming practices

[Gulli]

Did you see the Country Calendar calve rearing farm I posted @gone up the hill ?
Why is it supermarkets and abattoirs in the UK don't want anything over 16 months?

The main reason that they give is the higher risk of dark cutters I think.
More likely is it gives them more control over farmers and they don't want bulls in slowing down kill lines, not that I have great deal to do with that end of the industry.

Most places grazing large numbers of bulls isn't particularly practical here anyway

 

[Derrick Hughes]

The facts are correct and you cannot dispute them. The main paying feature of your sheep was probably the EU subsidy, not the physical work.

The sub on lowland ewes was quite small to be honest and no were near made up for what we made when in milk . Dad said nothing payed like milk and apart from a few bad years it still probably holds true today but I've been out to long to know
The biggest mistake I made was when we gave up milk I should have invested the money and put my feet up .especially as I was recovering from a severe heart attack. I love work and will probably die with my boots on . The best way to go

 

[Farmer T]

I notice most of that is aimed at farming then all the other forms of pollution (which are the main forms) get a sentence each.
No mention of Fish and Game or Greenpeace going after Town councils and other industries for their pollution.
If you want to see pollution of the rivers test downstream of towns and actually investigate where the pollutions coming from. Farmers have a part to play but so do councils for their totally knackered infrastructure. Then there's the issue of 'Freedom campers' all camping and sh**ing near rivers because there's no toilets, its becoming a big problem.
Then there's forestry run off/slash that blocks up rivers in heavy rain. A recent example.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104486938/tolaga-bay-to-be-hit-by-more-rain-after-severe-flooding

Lots of problems and getting worse as population climbs, My opinion, its still better than the UK but if there was 70 million people here, it would be a different story. Although more people should bring more tax dollars to spend on infrastructure, which I think is a bit problem at the moment.

I’m not here to start a pointless argument but if Wikipedia has focused on farming and only given the other reasons a sentence each- there’s probably a reason.

I was out there in December last year and saw what practices are going on. As you said without any subsidy to take from farmers there is a more relaxed attitude, especially with your amazing soils, climate and low disease risk.

I would move to NZ tomorrow and freely admit not every farmer is causing the pollution but you have a huge environmental problem at the moment.

 

[Cowabunga]

Complaining cows do too well off grass

Well yes. I've got to be careful even with Holsteins calving at two years of age. You wouldn't believe how much they have grown since Christmas inside on only silage and 1kg of cake a day until about next week, which will see most in-calf. They range from one year to 15 months in age. By mid summer, having only has a maximum of 90kgs cake each since they were calves sent out to grass, they will be large animals. Very well sized by late October when hopefully the majority will calve down out in the field.

 

[Cowabunga]

The sub on lowland ewes was quite small to be honest and no were near made up for what we made when in milk . Dad said nothing payed like milk and apart from a few bad years it still probably holds true today but I've been out to long to know
The biggest mistake I made was when we gave up milk I should have invested the money and put my feet up .especially as I was recovering from a severe heart attack. I love work and will probably die with my boots on . The best way to go

Yes, I'll give you that, you worked too hard. Too many bloody sheep and cattle as far as that goes. Nobody is likely to claim that sheep pay anywhere near as well on the lowland as dairy cows, but most of the profit they do make is the subsidy from the EU in many years. Or it was in the years concerned.

 

[Agrispeed]

Well yes. I've got to be careful even with Holsteins calving at two years of age. You wouldn't believe how much they have grown since Christmas inside on only silage and 1kg of cake a day until about next week, which will see most in-calf. They range from one year to 15 months in age. By mid summer, having only has a maximum of 90kgs cake each since they were calves sent out to grass, they will be large animals. Very well sized by late October when hopefully the majority will calve down out in the field.

why feed cake if you have to be careful with them doing too well? Out of interest what sort of weights are you aiming for as an adult?

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

The calves I quoted about in NZ actually happened/ it was common practice and was all over the media.

Are you claiming its fake news??

Also some of the pictures of calving paddocks were shocking.

End of the day all country's have good/ bad farmers but its quite clear that the standards in NZ are lower than the UK and some of what you are allowed to do wouldn't be tolerated/ allowed in the UK, thou im not saying all these things are wrong just that we cannot and will never be allowed to do most of them.

Take Kiwi pete, he runs beef bulls outdoors on grass to 24 months old ( I think the age is ) and then sends them on, would be all but impossible to do a grass based system like that in the UK for bulls as 1 : because of so many footpaths 2 : boundary's of farms/ neighbouring cattle are very close in the UK unlike NZ as generally your farms are much bigger/ spread out and 3 because the abattoirs/supermarkets in the UK don't want bulls over 16 months and they get heavily cut price wise once they are 16 months and 1 day old.

And for what its worth I think kiwi pete's system is a very good low input way to rear bulls.

I'm confused. How does this make their standards inferior to yours

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I'm confused. How does this make their standards inferior to yours

And what has / not having public footpaths got to do with comparing standards?

 

[digger64]

The main reason that they give is the higher risk of dark cutters I think.
More likely is it gives them more control over farmers and they don't want bulls in slowing down kill lines, not that I have great deal to do with that end of the industry.

Most places grazing large numbers of bulls isn't particularly practical here anyway

The fore quarters get bigger then and temperment changes

 

[Doc]

What is a ‘standard’?
I’m always confused that extensive and ranching type operations seem considered to be of a lower ‘standard’ than more intensive, often housed systems. Is it because there is less human intervention and general stock bothering in the former so the standard must be lower? Genuine question.

It’s apples and pears surely.

 

[Cowabunga]

why feed cake if you have to be careful with them doing too well? Out of interest what sort of weights are you aiming for as an adult?

They have to be on a rising plane of nutrition while bulling. Its bugger all really and they won't need any more until nearing calving. They need to grow fairly consistently while not laying down fat.
Heifers at calving will be around 550kgs and I expect them to gain up to another 100kgs by the end of the third lactation, depending on stage of pregnancy of course.

 

[Cowabunga]

And what has / not having public footpaths got to do with comparing standards?

You cannot run dairy bulls as a batch or alone on public footpaths in the UK and many farms have a high proportion of fields with public footpaths. I certainly have.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I’m not here to start a pointless argument but if Wikipedia has focused on farming and only given the other reasons a sentence each- there’s probably a reason.

I was out there in December last year and saw what practices are going on. As you said without any subsidy to take from farmers there is a more relaxed attitude, especially with your amazing soils, climate and low disease risk.

I would move to NZ tomorrow and freely admit not every farmer is causing the pollution but you have a huge environmental problem at the moment.

I'd have no issues with that, in some ways the last 30 years we have gone backwards compared to the changes and advancements of the preceding 30 years. To our detriment we have looked overseas for improvents and changes rather than following our own path and improving on the systems that we already had, and finding solutions to our own regional problems rather than merely replicating the Northern Hemisphere.

 

[Cowabunga]

What is a ‘standard’?
I’m always confused that extensive and ranching type operations seem considered to be of a lower ‘standard’ than more intensive, often housed systems. Is it because there is less human intervention and general stock bothering in the former so the standard must be lower? Genuine question.

It’s apples and pears surely.

In general there will be less contact, observation and intervention with the cattle form far less labour per head of cattle. That's not necessarily a bad thing either way though as long as good husbandry was followed, which is sometimes lacking wherever you are or whatever the system. Some farmers are fussy and some are plain rough. Some are thorough in their work and empathetic with their stock and some are useless barstewards. I've seen them all.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

You cannot run dairy bulls as a batch or alone on public footpaths in the UK and many farms have a high proportion of fields with public footpaths. I certainly have.

The whole public footpath scenario to some not in the UK is quite bizarre, if you enter a field with any form of livestock , one must access the situation, calculate the risk and if the risk is deemed unsafe, you then must not enter, that's just common sense .

 

[Gulli]

The whole public footpath scenario to some not in the UK is quite bizarre, if you enter a field with any form of livestock , one must access the situation, calculate the risk and if the risk is deemed unsafe, you then must not enter, that's just common sense .

No no no you've got it all wrong.
You need to walk in, preferably leaving the gate open, or even better cutting a hole in the wire next to the stile. walk around in circles letting your dog sh!t where it wants for a bit and then bump into a herd of cows and calves minding their own business and run away screaming or crying and blame the farmer for his cattle being out on the road.

Alternatively you can find a flock of sheep and have an enjoyable game of fetch with said dog.

Its important to remember that absolutely nothing that happens on your walk is your fault

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What is a ‘standard’?
I’m always confused that extensive and ranching type operations seem considered to be of a lower ‘standard’ than more intensive, often housed systems. Is it because there is less human intervention and general stock bothering in the former so the standard must be lower? Genuine question.

It’s apples and pears surely.

Indoor systems have hurdles and barriers, Doc, so they don't need standards .

These are good standards, you can buy high and low ones.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I’ll just leave this here. Interesting reading.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_pollution_in_New_Zealand

Strewth, "domestic" and "industrial" didn't get much of a mention

I wonder if a farmer wrote the article

 

[FonterraFarmer]

No no no you've got it all wrong.
You need to walk in, preferably leaving the gate open, or even better cutting a hole in the wire next to the stile. walk around in circles letting your dog sh!t where it wants for a bit and then bump into a herd of cows and calves minding their own business and run away screaming or crying and blame the farmer for his cattle being out on the road.

Alternatively you can find a flock of sheep and have an enjoyable game of fetch with said dog.

Its important to remember that absolutely nothing that happens on your walk is your fault

Ffs

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Indoor systems have hurdles and barriers, Doc, so they don't need standards .

View attachment 774662
These are good standards, you can buy high and low ones.

Those are sh!t standards , we have better standards here!!!