New Zealand has higher farm animal welfare

[unlacedgecko]

I know they have thier version, they do not have ours and nor do they have the great british public. "Oh look animals outdoors, call the RSPCA" "Oh look, animals locked in a shed call the RSPCA"

Plenty of anti farming fückwits in NZ. Unfortunately, the highest profile one appears to have gained office of PM.

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

 

[MRT]

Plenty of anti farming fückwits in NZ. Unfortunately, the highest profile one appears to have gained office of PM.

Bizzare. Like a female Tony Blair. They are following our curve.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Bizzare. Like a female Tony Blair. They are following our curve.

She is a disciple of His Tonyness, and worked for him when he was British PM

 

[MRT]

She is a disciple of His Tonyness, and worked for him when he was British PM

I did not know that. Things can only get better

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

I would argue that most folk that think the uk has high welfare and NZ low welfare when it comes to live stock ...... are mostly folk that are scared of what NZ can produce, and have an over inflated idea of UK welfare.

Can anyone that thinks it, actually explain how they have lower welfare in NZ?

@gone up the hill ?

Have you ever worked in NZ/spent time there.

 

[milkloss]

I don’t think the uk has particularly good welfare of sheep, far to many lame, scabby and unprotected from struck sheep.

Which aren’t seen by the public in New Zealand. What the eyes don’t see the heart doesn’t grieve about.

 

[CopperBeech]

Have you ever worked in NZ/spent time there.

Nope. Are you going to answer the question?

 

[Plain steer]

We had a vet at our local practice she had worked in nz for 6 months was ment to be longer but she could not not bring her self to stop any longer as the animal welfare on the farms she went to was a disgrace she said and they were large dairy farms she is a large animal vet only and isn’t soft and said the standards over here are miles better and a joy to work with

 

[Ffermer Bach]

My view is that there is a Western "anti farming or eating of meat" agenda in all the English speaking countries. This is powered by the multinational food corporations who profit far more from ultra processed foods that are full of sugar/carbs/plant based oils than they ever do from meat and veggies. There are so many people who are divorced from the realities of the countryside and food production that they have fallen hook, line & sinker for the idea that meat free is
*better for the environment (cattle cause global warming!)
*less cruel to animals
*healthier
I don't know where to start on why all that is wrong, certainly I don't want to start typing all the reasons why! There is a drip, drip of informed information on why our diets need to be less ultra processed and how that will benefit soils/eco systems/carbon capture/health/long levity etc, but people don't listen to reasoned debate, rather the likes of Mombiot or the piffle peddled by the BBC and Countryfile.

There was even an interview with a competitor of Chelsea flower show on Gardeners Question Time earlier, saying Trees are not good in higher climes for Global Warming, grassland/scrub/heathland is better, shame most people did not listen to it.

Getting back to the thread, every country has good and not so good points in how they farm, what we as consumers should do is use pressure of numbers to only buy the good and make market forces stop the bad systems for all food. For that reason, I don't often buy KFC as I worry about how the Chickens are raised (and to be honest I think it tastes terrible).

 

[livestock 1]

We have someone helping us here from NZ now and again and she is amazed how we make every sheep or beast count as she puts it but it’s not like that over there her words not mine

 

[CopperBeech]

We have someone helping us here from NZ now and again and she is amazed how we make every sheep or beast count as she puts it but it’s not like that over there her words not mine

No but I think a lot would argue that despite that attitude we often have poorer all round flock / herd management.

Lambing indoors, routine use of anti biotics, poor understanding of stock welfare on a larger level etc

 

[livestock 1]

No but I think a lot would argue that despite that attitude we often have poorer all round flock / herd management.

Lambing indoors, routine use of anti biotics, poor understanding of stock welfare on a larger level etc

They have some great ideas and good practices but you couldn’t do it here in the most part mainly due to public opinion

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I'd say we're all (uk,nz,oz,us etc.) Equally looking to improve animal welfare. The consumer demands it. I get a bit sick of the whole were better, their better crap. Would rather stock farmers globally were united and shared ideas/systems to created a united front against the anti meat agenda. Given numnuts (pain relief ring applicator capable of injecting anaesthetic without applying the ring) is approved in NZ I can see it being mandatory to anaesthetise prior to docking or castrating (sheep and cattle). Won't be long before it's the same here.

I completely agree with the first half.
The second part is all bolllocks. [pardon the pun]
Numnuts is virtual signalling.
If there is a any benefit to its use, it would be slight.
The increase in costs and carbon footprint is massive.
It is a perfect example of how private businesses campaign on dubious welfare benefits to create a whole new income stream at the cost of the environment and farmer.

 

[unlacedgecko]

I completely agree with the first half.
The second part is all bolllocks. [pardon the pun]
Numnuts is virtual signalling.
If there is a any benefit to its use, it would be slight.
The increase in costs and carbon footprint is massive.
It is a perfect example of how private businesses campaign on dubious welfare benefits to create a whole new income stream at the cost of the environment and farmer.

You don't think there's a benefit to administering pain relief before castrating tail docking and/or dehorning?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

You don't think there's a benefit to administering pain relief before castrating tail docking and/or dehorning?

There maybe.
I wouldn't disbud without anaesthetic.
Castrating and tailing young lambs causes a discomfort rather than pain. Similar to putting a protective 'cone collar' on a pet after treatment.
The circumstances and stress of the act would probably be more significant than the short period of discomfort afterwards.
Potential issues of infection and the huge extra requirement for lignocaine makes the idea pretty nonsensical to me.

 

[unlacedgecko]

There maybe.
I wouldn't disbud without anaesthetic.
Castrating and tailing young lambs causes a discomfort rather than pain. Similar to putting a protective 'cone collar' on a pet after treatment.
The circumstances and stress of the act would probably be more significant than the short period of discomfort afterwards.
Potential issues of infection and the huge extra requirement for lignocaine makes the idea pretty nonsensical to me.

I've tailed and castrated lambs at birth, and at later ages (including at several weeks when abroad).

I'm certain this causes pain.

I've got no agenda. I fully support UK farmers being able to tail and castrate, as per current regulations. Contract tailing forms part of my income.

 

[CopperBeech]

I’ve tailed several thousand lambs in the last few weeks. From what I can tell, the pain relief doesn’t make a huge difference to most. And the applicator is w*nk, and designed for using rings not a gas iron.

 

[Al R]

Anyone who tails within the first 12 hours knows there is no “check” or pain just a discomfort. There is a time and place for ringing, unfortunately some of the staff here got lazy and couldn’t be bothered to castrate or tail with rings when young so I now have 40-50 ram lambs running around which are small and arn’t the right breed in terms of growth rates so that’s going to be a nightmare later on. Ringing lambs at 48 hours old I see that they are in pain for a few minutes, this doesn’t happen when done sub 12 hours.

@CopperBeech do you have to use anaesthetic when using the docking iron?

 

[CopperBeech]

Anyone who tails within the first 12 hours knows there is no “check” or pain just a discomfort. There is a time and place for ringing, unfortunately some of the staff here got lazy and couldn’t be bothered to castrate or tail with rings when young so I now have 40-50 ram lambs running around which are small and arn’t the right breed in terms of growth rates so that’s going to be a nightmare later on. Ringing lambs at 48 hours old I see that they are in pain for a few minutes, this doesn’t happen when done sun 12 hours.

@CopperBeech do you have to use anaesthetic when using the docking iron? What do you do about testicles at 6-7 weeks when your docking?

I don’t know what you’re talking about

 

[beardface]

I completely agree with the first half.
The second part is all bolllocks. [pardon the pun]
Numnuts is virtual signalling.
If there is a any benefit to its use, it would be slight.
The increase in costs and carbon footprint is massive.
It is a perfect example of how private businesses campaign on dubious welfare benefits to create a whole new income stream at the cost of the environment and farmer.

Its not bollox. It was also taken on in ozzy mainly due to market demand for high welfare wool. How about I put a ring round your bollox and take a red hot poker to your arse and see what you think. Just because animals don't always show immediate distress from procedures doesn't mean there isn't a pain response. As livestock keepers we have to be willing to accept that tools like numnuts will be necessary to allow the routine use of aneasthetics during (as Tim puts it) mutilation procedures. Either that or well have to get used to uncastrated and long tailed sheep all over the place. The main difference I see between ourselves and the likes of NZ and Oz is that we feel we should tell the consumer/market what they should be buying and stuff em if they don't like how it's produced, instead of producing what the consumer/market want in a way they want it produced. If every sheep farm in nz had to use anaesthetic at tailing to hit market requirements I doubt they'd moan much, but look to technology to make it quick and affordable, or breed shorter tails.