New Zealand

[stewart]

What lying you mean? my goodness what would you have said had boris done such a thing

Was she lying? Or is that just slime ball Bridges trying to gain political points.

 

[robs1]

Was she lying? Or is that just slime ball Bridges trying to gain political points.

Not a clue I was comparing how you view her and boris.
That post just shows your bias, you give her the benefit of the doubt but find boris guilty of every crime .

 

[stewart]

I think Kiwi's have done a great job in keeping this virus at bay. The PM has shown strong leadership BUT she has had an advantage over most countries in that the majority of Kiwi's have obeyed some very strict rules without making a fuss. Doing what she did in countries like the UK and US simply wouldn't have worked.
We also have a pathetic media that seem incapable of asking simple questions at the many press conferences. They seem to have taken a view that they don't want to upset the PM, perhaps because the media is struggling as advertisers stop spending and they need a bail out?

I compare Ardern to Obama, wants to be seen as a great leader to the rest of the world, nice and friendly to the public but obviously runs the party with an iron fist. Nothing gets out, no one else speaks unless she clears it.

There will be a lot come out in the next year or so regarding unintended consequences. How they land will depend on the countries situation at the time. By then the PM will probably have secured a second term, perhaps even without Winston, so she'll be well placed to deal with the fall out.

I'm very glad she did what she did though, it was the right call for NZ's situation at the time in my opinion.

The next election will be an interesting one, if it were held today Cindy would walk in, there is no effective opposition and she has a lot of public support, from both sides of the political spectrum, I do have concerns if she gains a huge majority without Winston to keep her in check.
She does handle the press well and has the ability to shut down difficult questions, not that she gets asked too many. Perhaps we need a gutter press like the UK? On second thoughts!!

 

[stewart]

Not a clue I was comparing how you view her and boris.
That post just shows your bias, you give her the benefit of the doubt but find boris guilty of every crime .

Not at all, my politics are probably more aligned with Boris, however I will give credit where it is due and Cindy is consistent.

 

[NZDan]

Is our lockdown worse that the UK or better, with only 20 deaths as opposed to the predicted 40,000 then I would argue it is better, sure there are some economic tough times ahead, there would have been even without the lockdown and perhaps could have been worse.
The results may have been the same under a different leader, who knows? although I would have very little faith in the slimy used car salesman Bridges, he has to go. we need another JK, where is he or she?
I do have concerns that Cindy may not be able to pull us through an economic recession and I am no fan of her political views, however it would be hard to deny that she has read the mood of the Nation well and her communication skills are outstanding.

Yes, but the 40K was based on 15% death rate with 5% of the population affected, has any country been that badly effected? we finished up with a 1.3% death rate. We must remember that Bridges etal were calling for action in late Feb early March and were laughed at by the PM, this whole administration is very much of the mold that if you say "hard and Early" often enough the public will believe it, time has proven that correct. There are 1000 people applying for unemployment benefit every day and that is while the wage subsidy exists. In my home town there are businesses closing every day, and i know personally businesses who have told staff they will close as soon as the wage subsidy ends.
Time will tell if we've done the right thing or not, but I'm hesitant to celebrate just yet, a certain Americas cup race springs to mind.

 

[stewart]

Yes, but the 40K was based on 15% death rate with 5% of the population affected, has any country been that badly effected? we finished up with a 1.3% death rate. We must remember that Bridges etal were calling for action in late Feb early March and were laughed at by the PM, this whole administration is very much of the mold that if you say "hard and Early" often enough the public will believe it, time has proven that correct. There are 1000 people applying for unemployment benefit every day and that is while the wage subsidy exists. In my home town there are businesses closing every day, and i know personally businesses who have told staff they will close as soon as the wage subsidy ends.
Time will tell if we've done the right thing or not, but I'm hesitant to celebrate just yet, a certain Americas cup race springs to mind.

Bridges would call for anything to try and discredit and criticise the government, even my kids are getting fed up with him. They want to hear what he is gong to do and what his policies are, not the constant babble about what the current administration are doing wrong, they can see that for themselves, negative politics does not work, which could be one of the reasons Aunty Cindy has such a high rating.

Agree on the Americas Cup, hopefully the country has opened up by then and a few planes are flying in, would be great to win another one.

 

[RushesToo]

Listen the results on Covid 19 have been great, but we're seeing economic ruin, mental health is plummeting and the suicide rate is through the roof, it is un-likely our borders will be open again for a number of years, we are still on a lock down worse than the UK and we've effectively no cases any more, our lock down was modeled on 40000 deaths and we've had 20, the hospitalization rate has been minor, in the mean time we've got cancer treatments delayed, terminal patients spend their last weeks alone with no visitors, woman forced to give birth with out their husbands.
The PPE and fluvax issue is that the PM constantly stated we had enough PPE and Fluvax and out right called health workers lairs for saying there wasn't enough, it now comes to light in the new documents that she knew all along there was not enough, but instructed her mouth pieces to say there was enough, it is not the lack of that was an issue it was the lieing about it. Just like the famous 20% paycut which was announced and the world neighed how thoughtful she was, yet when it was raised in Parliament it was vetoed.
I believe our result is good in spite of our leader not because of our leader.

Given the hell hole that you are clearly in, where in the World would you rather be @NZDan - where would you rather be than New Zealand?
You have the whole World to pick from?

I know I am labouring the point, but you should be terribly proud of yourself, kinsfolk and country . My praise is heartfelt.

 

[NZDan]

Bridges would call for anything to try and discredit and criticise the government, even my kids are getting fed up with him. They want to hear what he is gong to do and what his policies are, not the constant babble about what the current administration are doing wrong, they can see that for themselves, negative politics does not work, which could be one of the reasons Aunty Cindy has such a high rating.

Agree on the Americas Cup, hopefully the country has opened up by then and a few planes are flying in, would be great to win another one.

I'm no fan of National or Bridges, they are nothing more than Labour light, they have been ineffectual as an opposition and failed at seriously asking questions of the government. I'm convinced he would have done nothing different to the current lot. He may be a fud compared to Ardern but at least he has decent back up ministers. Labour really are a one trick pony.

 

[NZDan]

Given the hell hole that you are clearly in, where in the World would you rather be @NZDan - where would you rather be than New Zealand?
You have the whole World to pick from?

I know I am labouring the point, but you should be terribly proud of yourself, kinsfolk and country . My praise is heartfelt.

God it pains me to say it.... but probably Australia, I agree we've done great till now....but what next....closed borders and isolated from the world for the next 2-3 years? Because that is what the released government papers yesterday have said is the plan, I'm not saying we've taken the wrong path, but I'm not saying it's the right path either, time will tell.

 

[H200GT]

Well New Zealand, try to stop looking so bloody smug. Nonetheless - well bloody done.
You can be proud of your self, your kinsmen, scientists and leader. You seem to have got it right.

You have saved lives and money - better then most of the rest of the World. I am deeply impressed.
:tips hat

IMO you can’t really compare NZ’s response to the Uk’s. Firstly whilst both countries have similar land area, NZ’s total population is roughly half of London’s. NZ’s population is circa 6m - the UK circa 66m. This gives them a huge advantage.

I am no economic expert, but I would also hazard a guess that NZ has far less international travel than the Uk, with far fewer people entering and leaving the country on a daily basis. Again a huge advantage.

Closing borders in NZ would also be far more straightforward than in the UK. We are highly dependent on trade including food with the EU, which has freely flowed between Ireland, Uk and mainland Europe for decades, and this cannot be stopped overnight. I suspect NZ will be far more self sufficient in this regard, especially where fresh produce is concerned.

Whilst I agree that NZ have done a great job, it couldn’t be repeated here in the UK. IMO the UK government have done a pretty good job of their own, certainly it hasn’t been as bad as we first feared. That will of course be little consolation to the families that have lost loved ones, but it could have been a lot worse.

 

[kiwi pom]

IMO you can’t really compare NZ’s response to the Uk’s. Firstly whilst both countries have similar land area, NZ’s total population is roughly half of London’s. NZ’s population is circa 6m - the UK circa 66m. This gives them a huge advantage.

I am no economic expert, but I would also hazard a guess that NZ has far less international travel than the Uk, with far fewer people entering and leaving the country on a daily basis. Again a huge advantage.

Closing borders in NZ would also be far more straightforward than in the UK. We are highly dependent on trade including food with the EU, which has freely flowed between Ireland, Uk and mainland Europe for decades, and this cannot be stopped overnight. I suspect NZ will be far more self sufficient in this regard, especially where fresh produce is concerned.

Whilst I agree that NZ have done a great job, it couldn’t be repeated here in the UK. IMO the UK government have done a pretty good job of their own, certainly it hasn’t been as bad as we first feared. That will of course be little consolation to the families that have lost loved ones, but it could have been a lot worse.

Don't think we've made it to 5 million yet.
I agree its much easier to seal off NZ no tunnel or ferries for a start. One thing I'd add, the borders are closed to people not freight, although it has slowed but that was mainly due to China being on stop. Things are starting to move again now.

 

[Blaithin]

Yes, but the 40K was based on 15% death rate with 5% of the population affected, has any country been that badly effected? we finished up with a 1.3% death rate. We must remember that Bridges etal were calling for action in late Feb early March and were laughed at by the PM, this whole administration is very much of the mold that if you say "hard and Early" often enough the public will believe it, time has proven that correct. There are 1000 people applying for unemployment benefit every day and that is while the wage subsidy exists. In my home town there are businesses closing every day, and i know personally businesses who have told staff they will close as soon as the wage subsidy ends.
Time will tell if we've done the right thing or not, but I'm hesitant to celebrate just yet, a certain Americas cup race springs to mind.

You think it's over? Gone? Never to be seen again?

So..... open the borders?

 

[kiwi pom]

So according to the PM we start to go into level 2 from Thursday and children can go back to school from next Monday.
She seemed to me to be saying things have improved enough to let more things happen, shops, restaurants opening etc. But its up to us to be sensible and not push it and let the virus bounce back.
Seemed fair enough to me.

 

[NZDan]

Given the hell hole that you are clearly in, where in the World would you rather be @NZDan - where would you rather be than New Zealand?
You have the whole World to pick from?

I know I am labouring the point, but you should be terribly proud of yourself, kinsfolk and country . My praise is heartfelt.

I am beginning to think this place is turning into a hell hole, new laws rushed through parliament while lockdown was inforce to give police more powers, including being able to enter homes with out warrants if they think there are more than 10 people in the home. On friday night my sons house was raided by seven police officers, some with side arms because they had had a report of 11 people being there!!!! The whole house was searched, top to bottom, for what reason, because a couple of mates want to have some beers because they haven't seen each other for 7 weeks, absolute madness

 

[stewart]

You think it's over? Gone? Never to be seen again?

So..... open the borders?

That would let it back in.

 

[NZDan]

You think it's over? Gone? Never to be seen again?

So..... open the borders?

Borders are still open, just with a 2 week quarantine, there are still 3 flights a week to and from LAX, we've got refugees still arriving each week and essential workers are arriving still. My travel agent is still booking a few people who are brave enough to have holidays, the morning I spoke to her she'd just booked a family of 5 for a holiday to the US in June.
But we have effectively eliminated it, all recent cases are from clusters and the most recent reported case was from a person who was sick two months ago but only just tested. The SI has had no new cases for over 14 days, it would appear that it does not exist in the SI any more.
For what ever reason we got off very lightly, our hospitalization rate per positive test was exceptionally low compared to else where in the world.

 

[stewart]

I am beginning to think this place is turning into a hell hole, new laws rushed through parliament while lockdown was inforce to give police more powers, including being able to enter homes with out warrants if they think there are more than 10 people in the home. On friday night my sons house was raided by seven police officers, some with side arms because they had had a report of 11 people being there!!!! The whole house was searched, top to bottom, for what reason, because a couple of mates want to have some beers because they haven't seen each other for 7 weeks, absolute madness

The new Police powers are a concern, do they really need them?

 

[kiwi pom]

The new Police powers are a concern, do they really need them?

Yes and no. They probably do need considerably more powers to actually catch and convict criminals, shut down the gangs etc but will they use them for that or use them to mess with people that have done nothing wrong?

One thing that amazed me over the lockdown was the road blocks 'up north'
Even when their were no police present they were ok with it WTF?

If half a dozen white fellas with very short hair had set up a similar checkpoint a mile to the south and stopped everyone travelling would that be fine too?

 

[stewart]

Yes and no. They probably do need considerably more powers to actually catch and convict criminals, shut down the gangs etc but will they use them for that or use them to mess with people that have done nothing wrong?

One thing that amazed me over the lockdown was the road blocks 'up north'
Even when their were no police present they were ok with it WTF?

If half a dozen white fellas with very short hair had set up a similar checkpoint a mile to the south and stopped everyone travelling would that be fine too?

One of out "local areas" has a road block to stop non residents going in, residents have there own car sticker to save them being stopped.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Given the hell hole that you are clearly in, where in the World would you rather be @NZDan - where would you rather be than New Zealand?
You have the whole World to pick from?

I know I am labouring the point, but you should be terribly proud of yourself, kinsfolk and country . My praise is heartfelt.

True , give credit where it's due, but and it's only my opinion but our governments preventative strategy and management pre lockdown was a shambles, and the effectiveness of the lockdown given our location I'd suspect had a lot of luck.
As for the future direction in the way of the recovery post Covid 19 and how its governed has the potential if poorly implemented could well be Labour's equivalent of "Think Big" from the 70's and 80's.