Next bull for suckler herd

beefandsleep

Member
Location
Staffordshire
Because maintenance requirements are too high which means more feed has to be put in for the same return. Less cows per acre, more silage needing made. Increase in poaching, shorter grazing season. You know the answers really.
Your cattle look fantastic by the way, I’ve always loved sims, they are a great cow but even on my lowland farm I consider them too big as a rule. Yes I know some are smaller framed and there are big Herefords etc but generally on good farms they will be 800kg and more. And as carcass weight limits are dropping there is no need to have a store with the potential to top out at 800kg. An easy fleshing 650kg cow put to a terminal sire can produce calves that deliver the same dlwg for less input.
 

Optimus

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North of Perth
Sim heifer out of a dairy x sim cow.
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Maybe this is a daft question, but isn't it always a good thing if they gain condition easily? As in, this is a good problem, to solve by getting more cows/ feeding them less?
It's a fair question

I want a cow in goods strong condition, not over fat.

A cow will eat what she'll eat, if grass management is good and she is a hill type she'll get over fat in a lowland situation, you cannot keep them hungry so you can keep more

By keeping that low keep cow on lowlands not only are you not making best use of your land and grass you are also not getting the best performance from each cow.

In dairy terms, you wouldn't keep a 5000 litre cow on a 8000 litre cow's diet.
 
Because maintenance requirements are too high which means more feed has to be put in for the same return. Less cows per acre, more silage needing made. Increase in poaching, shorter grazing season. You know the answers really.
Your cattle look fantastic by the way, I’ve always loved sims, they are a great cow but even on my lowland farm I consider them too big as a rule. Yes I know some are smaller framed and there are big Herefords etc but generally on good farms they will be 800kg and more. And as carcass weight limits are dropping there is no need to have a store with the potential to top out at 800kg. An easy fleshing 650kg cow put to a terminal sire can produce calves that deliver the same dlwg for less input.
I agree you can keep a small cow and mate her to a Char or something else with extreme growth to balance the lower growth potential of the cow.
But 650 isn't small, you're only a CS away from what I'm classing as ideal.

If you want to breed your own replacements or run a maternal/dual purpose herd you are battling to get low growth potential types to make it to slaughter at an age/ that justifies running them on better land and managing grass to its optimum performance.
 
Your cattle are certainly a credit to you - it’s nice to see photos of them. Your third paragraph above I would say is what everyone probably ought to be looking for, no matter what breed it is. I’m puzzled though, because most Simmentals I have seen have been much bigger and heavier than yours (maybe because most of those have been at shows). Presumably after many years you have developed your own “strain” that produces big males and small females (judging by the size of the calves relative to the size of the cows in the photos)?
I'm probably a bit unorthodox amongst Sim people, many are looking for a Char that can produce milk, I see no point in that.

I'm keener on finer boned softer fleshed types of cattle which coincidentally fits in with quite a lot of polled lines.
Big rough cattle aren't for me, they tend to be harder calving and have bad udders and who wants that in a commercial herd.
 
The first pedigree cross maintains consistency and hybrid vigour. To clarify, all my stock bulls are pedigree. The grey bulls in photo are a first generation cross. We always used to run one ourselves in the past and there was no more variation than with a pedigree, but you never touched the calves. Vigour from Highflyer and the blondes is tremendous. 5 yearling hybrid bulls in the yard now if you want to try one ;)
In my experience a lethal cross, if you want dead cows use one, funny enough we had a suckler chap in the yard from up Yorkshire just after we'd used him but before the calves were born, when he heard what cross he was, he said kill him, I don't need to see him just kill him, because I guarantee you will regret using him, and we did, but fortunately he'd hurt himself after serving 12 cows and had gone for slaughter, a blessing in disguise.
 

betterbreadbeef

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Lincs
In my experience a lethal cross, if you want dead cows use one, funny enough we had a suckler chap in the yard from up Yorkshire just after we'd used him but before the calves were born, when he heard what cross he was, he said kill him, I don't need to see him just kill him, because I guarantee you will regret using him, and we did, but fortunately he'd hurt himself after serving 12 cows and had gone for slaughter, a blessing in disguise.
Takes a lot of good experiences to outweigh a bad one. I've used blonde x blue bulls of my own on and off for the last 20years. Its all about having the right genetic mix. The pedigree blonde cows calve unassisted. Highflyer is the easiest calving blue I've ever had. Gestation length will be well below that of 90% of the lim herdbook. How the cow is fed in the last trimester is as much an influence as the bull.

Either way, sorry to hear you had a bad time. I had a lim cause 12 prolapse in a season, never had that with any other breed. Genetics are an informed gamble. Try and weight the dice in your favour wherever possible.
 

davieogrutha

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Orkney
I do my own A.I. And like to experiment a bit. I tried parthenaise on some simmental x cows and first year 5 out of 6 were heifers sold the stot and got same price I was getting for lim x and simx calves. took fright for selling the heifers and retained them in the herd. Really glad I did. Lovely cows. Great mothers. not extreme in any way good calving ability good udders not big but milked well. Could put them to any type of bull. Had used char, lim, blue, blonde, simmental on them and never to much bother. Keep trying a couple each year to try and get more but been getting bull calves which is a bit frustrating. I sold a heifer in Sept at Thainstone would have kept her but she had hurt her front foot and half the hoof needed to come of😟 so that was the end of her being kept. She made £1200.
 

betterbreadbeef

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Lincs
I do my own A.I. And like to experiment a bit. I tried parthenaise on some simmental x cows and first year 5 out of 6 were heifers sold the stot and got same price I was getting for lim x and simx calves. took fright for selling the heifers and retained them in the herd. Really glad I did. Lovely cows. Great mothers. not extreme in any way good calving ability good udders not big but milked well. Could put them to any type of bull. Had used char, lim, blue, blonde, simmental on them and never to much bother. Keep trying a couple each year to try and get more but been getting bull calves which is a bit frustrating. I sold a heifer in Sept at Thainstone would have kept her but she had hurt her front foot and half the hoof needed to come of😟 so that was the end of her being kept. She made £1200.
Got Newroddige Highflyer and Taylors Lancelot semen for sale if you want to try either of them, would cross brilliantly on a Parthenais! Have a look on www.better-bread.co.uk. If you decide you want to try some I'll see what we can do on delivery since you're an islander ;)
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Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hmm, not necessarily.

Heard on a podcast the other week that cow's milking ability only contributes 15% to calf weaning weight. And high-yielding cows take more feeding and may take longer to get back in calf.
Milk is only to supplement grass, so it depends on the system. A lot of people calve cows when a rabbit would still need his bait bag, so milking ability is important to them.
Calve when there is plenty of feed, and milk is the most inefficient use of grass. Then again weaning the calf at about 600kg makes the whole system suck
 
Disagree on the Blondes being flighty, only this week did the market drover comment on how quite our Blonde stock are. If anything our worse stock are the ones with any Lim blood in them.

Its strange how Blondes have such a reputation here for temperament, yet in Australia, Canada and US they are sold as being quite temperament.
They're certainly not quite here in NZ, the local breeding center had to do some embryo and semen collection on some recently, they had to send the whole lot home in the end as they were nuts.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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