Next bull for suckler herd

[Cowgirl]

If a 7-month calf is on high ME haylage plus (say) 1kg daily of a good quality concentrate, I wouldn't be surprised if milk reduces its performance. In other words, it might do better by being weaned.

The cows would be easier kept, and at this time of year, would be less liable to staggers or starvation.

So, has there been any work on how milk affects the utilisation of roughage and concentrates in young growing cattle which can either be derived or not derived of milk.

Interesting project for someone at college?
Should think though the ones still on the cow would do better but that’s just a gut feeling with no information - could be wrong. Our cows are mostly still out with calves on them - we won’t wean till March.

 

[ImLost]

View attachment 925574

These boys will make very good beef crossing bulls. Sold two this spring and both have done the business. Shape, but reduced gestation and lower myostatin levels, safer calving

Am I the only one wondering what breed they are?

 

[betterbreadbeef]

Am I the only one wondering what breed they are?

Pedigree blonde x the best British Blue I've ever owned...

 

[betterbreadbeef]

I run a mix of blue, lim and blonde cows, most of which can trace lineage back to blonde x friesian cows. Cross said cows to one of 4 Pedigree Blues or a Limousin. Bull calves were weaned mid August at 6-8 months, sold as stores in North Yorkshire. Peak weight was a 488kg blue out of a ba x fr cow. Top prices were £1175 and £1200. The split of which were sired by the above bull, Newroddige Highflyer and my other senior bull, Taylors Lancelot. The junior bull, Graymar Mars is also producing the goods in the shape of some very classy black heifers.

Calves have free access to creep from a week old, are fed creep at grass to a peak of 2kg/head/day at grass. Come in and go onto 2kg night and morning and ad lib 1st cut silage. Never look back.

 

[Woolless]

Fancy grades are of no interest to me, an easy fleshed u grade steer is a fancy as I'd be interested in.
IMO weight is important, but it doesn't have to be at the cost of fertility etc.
Getting cattle off the farm quickly is important.

Put another way, fertility and a sensible cow size doesn't have to come at the cost of weight gain.

Selective breeding will get you wherever you want to go in the end.

 

[Baling Hay]

I run a mix of blue, lim and blonde cows, most of which can trace lineage back to blonde x friesian cows. Cross said cows to one of 4 Pedigree Blues or a Limousin. Bull calves were weaned mid August at 6-8 months, sold as stores in North Yorkshire. Peak weight was a 488kg blue out of a ba x fr cow. Top prices were £1175 and £1200. The split of which were sired by the above bull, Newroddige Highflyer and my other senior bull, Taylors Lancelot. The junior bull, Graymar Mars is also producing the goods in the shape of some very classy black heifers.

Calves have free access to creep from a week old, are fed creep at grass to a peak of 2kg/head/day at grass. Come in and go onto 2kg night and morning and ad lib 1st cut silage. Never look back.

With the crossbred bulls do you not get a big variation among the calves?

 

[M-J-G]

Selective breeding will get you wherever you want to go in the end.

It can!

A few examples of cows that aren't big, can hold flesh and can milk without having big bags.
None of the calves have seen concentrate at this stage. Cows kept on forage only and all calved at 2yo first time around.

7 month old bull calf with no creep

7 month old Sim heifer calf out of a sim x BSH heifer.

7 month old 7/8 sim heifer calf, cow is 1/4 BSH

Pure Sim cow and calf

Pure Sim heifer and calf

Pure Sim 2nd calver and 6 month heifer calf

Pure Sim 5 month old twin heifer calves

 

[betterbreadbeef]

With the crossbred bulls do you not get a big variation among the calves?

The first pedigree cross maintains consistency and hybrid vigour. To clarify, all my stock bulls are pedigree. The grey bulls in photo are a first generation cross. We always used to run one ourselves in the past and there was no more variation than with a pedigree, but you never touched the calves. Vigour from Highflyer and the blondes is tremendous. 5 yearling hybrid bulls in the yard now if you want to try one

 

[west coast angus]

I bought these two bull calfs 7 months old when pics taken, no creep just milk grass and genetics

 

[west coast angus]

So back too the original post, I would go simmental all the way

 

[LancsBeef]

Hi interesting thread, slightly off topic but the Simmental calves look great, any pictures of the bulls these are by?

 

[Baling Hay]

View attachment 925687View attachment 925688View attachment 925689View attachment 925690
I bought these two bull calfs 7 months old when pics taken, no creep just milk grass and genetics

What weight do you think the cows are? Cracking calves!

 

[west coast angus]

Father of the red calf, the yellow boys father was sold.

 

[west coast angus]

What weight do you think the cows are? Cracking calves!

I would guess around 700 to 800kg

 

[JSmith]

The first pedigree cross maintains consistency and hybrid vigour. To clarify, all my stock bulls are pedigree. The grey bulls in photo are a first generation cross. We always used to run one ourselves in the past and there was no more variation than with a pedigree, but you never touched the calves. Vigour from Highflyer and the blondes is tremendous. 5 yearling hybrid bulls in the yard now if you want to try one

Any pictures??

 

[M-J-G]

I would guess around 700 to 800kg

High 600s to mid 700s

 

[thorpe]

It can!

A few examples of cows that aren't big, can hold flesh and can milk without having big bags.
None of the calves have seen concentrate at this stage. Cows kept on forage only and all calved at 2yo first time around.

7 month old bull calf with no creep
View attachment 925659
View attachment 925668


7 month old Sim heifer calf out of a sim x BSH heifer.
View attachment 925660

7 month old 7/8 sim heifer calf, cow is 1/4 BSH
View attachment 925661

Pure Sim cow and calf
View attachment 925664

Pure Sim heifer and calf
View attachment 925665

Pure Sim 2nd calver and 6 month heifer calf
View attachment 925666

Pure Sim 5 month old twin heifer calves
View attachment 925667

it says somthing for sims.

 

[beefandsleep]

Personal opinion and many won’t agree but any cow over 700kgs at condition score 3 is too big.

 

[M-J-G]

Personal opinion and many won’t agree but any cow over 700kgs at condition score 3 is too big.

Too big for what?
If it's a hard muscled lean type of cow I'd agree because that muscled does nothing.
If it's a 650 to 700kg cow that's feminine and uses her capacity to convert large quantities of forage into energy and milk I'd be happy enough.
700kg when in good condition (CS4) for me is ideal as that gives a mature weight at around mid to higher 300s deadweight and gives the scope to get to slaughter slowly or to be pushed hard to get there at just over a year old.

Lighter may suit hill land, but I think on a lowland situation calves neen to grow, and small cows just turn into balls of lard.

I'm regularly shocked at how little people say their cows weigh, but I never see these small cows when they sell them as culls.

All that said I wouldn't want a herd of big coarse Charolais type cows.

I could be totally wrong of course.

 

[Cowgirl]

Too big for what?
If it's a hard muscled lean type of cow I'd agree because that muscled does nothing.
If it's a 650 to 700kg cow that's feminine and uses her capacity to convert large quantities of forage into energy and milk I'd be happy enough.
700kg when in good condition (CS4) for me is ideal as that gives a mature weight at around mid to higher 300s deadweight and gives the scope to get to slaughter slowly or to be pushed hard to get there at just over a year old.

Lighter may suit hill land, but I think on a lowland situation calves neen to grow, and small cows just turn into balls of lard.

I'm regularly shocked at how little people say their cows weigh, but I never see these small cows when they sell them as culls.

All that said I wouldn't want a herd of big coarse Charolais type cows.

I could be totally wrong of course.

Your cattle are certainly a credit to you - it’s nice to see photos of them. Your third paragraph above I would say is what everyone probably ought to be looking for, no matter what breed it is. I’m puzzled though, because most Simmentals I have seen have been much bigger and heavier than yours (maybe because most of those have been at shows). Presumably after many years you have developed your own “strain” that produces big males and small females (judging by the size of the calves relative to the size of the cows in the photos)?