NFU & HLS / ELS payments.

Discussion in 'Tenant Farming, Subsidies, BPS & Legal Issues' started by Timbo, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Timbo

    Timbo Member

    Location:
    Gods County
    In the FG this morning, NFU lobbying CS for payments.

    Being one of the many farms owed grant money back into 2017 / 2018, would like to know what the NFU are actually doing to get some action, and WHEN will they pay up!! -

    Whilst some BPS payments can be held up due to mapping, mistakes and inconsistencies, there isn't any excuse for the CS schemes surely?

    @Guy Smith
     
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  2. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    CS is using the RPA same mapping system. Any remapping throws lots of error codes with the CS computer too. The whole thing goes from being just a clusterf*ck to an epic clusterf*ck!
     
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  3. Wooly

    Wooly Member

    Location:
    Romney Marsh
    @Frank-the-Wool might know something. He has spent a few frustrating hours on the phone to the RPA and is heavily involved with the NFU........ and probably still waiting for his CSS money !

    (Sorry Frank ! )
     
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  4. Guy Smith

    Guy Smith Member

    Location:
    Essex
    We don't run the RPA, if we did we'd put more resources into it and make sure we bought fit for purpose IT systems to run it. We've been calling for this for years, I like to think it's one reason BPS payments are improving ( 95% plus now paid) but we are frustrated this has been achieved at the expense of deteriorating delivery of HLS/ELS and patchy delivery of CS.

    To be clear, are you saying you are still waiting for money for a capital project under CS and you put the claim in over a year ago?
     
    Old Tip likes this.
  5. farmerm

    farmerm Member

    Location:
    Shropshire
    It’s time they stop fking about and ditch the flawed IT system.

    The RPA need a KISS,

    - A Keep It Simple System

    Accept that the cost of adminstrating tiny mapping changes to existing agreements is pointless and not a cost effective use of resources. Accept that any credibility in future government administered environmental schemes is being eroded beyond repair.

    Simply pay up based on the areas that are on the original agreements!!

    I hereby offer, for free my services to the RPA.

    If they would kindly send me a spreadsheet populated with just 4 columns of Mid-Tier agreement data

    Agreement number
    Agreement start date
    Total claim value over 5 years
    Amount paid to date.

    I can within minutes send it back showing what is currently overdue and a payment schedule for the remainder of each agreement based on each 1/5 becoming due on the annerversary of the agreement.

    It just needs a spreadsheet, not bloody rocket science.
     
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  6. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    Additional checks imposed by Brussels keep throwing the errors that would otherwise mean each claim passes through the IT. Add in systems and departments that don’t talk to each other and you’ve got the current tangled mess. CS is fairly unique to UK. Not many other schemes across the Channel like them.
     
  7. Guy Smith

    Guy Smith Member

    Location:
    Essex
    I agree.

    An emerging concern is that this politically contrived determination to blame Brussels for poor delivery of schemes by those at the top of DEFRA may mean important lessons about what is needed to deliver the new ELMs will not be learnt.
     
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  8. farmerm

    farmerm Member

    Location:
    Shropshire
    Blaming Brussels is not a new thing, it’s a theme long pushed by Euroskeptics, it’s what determined the referendum result. MPs and civil servants are very concerned about what will happen when they can no longer hide behind the “it’s not our fault” card..
     
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  9. Timbo

    Timbo Member

    Location:
    Gods County
    Really???
     
  10. Timbo

    Timbo Member

    Location:
    Gods County
    I am awaiting over 18months of HLS payment.
     
  11. Goweresque

    Goweresque Member

    Location:
    North Wilts
    Why haven't the NFU picked a decent test case and taken NE to court for non payment? Afraid they won't get their knighthoods if they rock the boat?
     
  12. spin cycle

    spin cycle Member

    Location:
    north norfolk
    stewardship is a shambles.....doesn't bode well for 'public goods payments'
     
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  13. livestock 1

    livestock 1 Member

    Hi Guy

    I know I have asked this before so bear with me is the 95% referring to the number of farmers or 95% of the pot. I’m hearing a lot of farmers like myself with common land have not been paid and a lot of farmers with large payments not paid.
     
    Timbo likes this.
  14. goatfarmer

    goatfarmer Member

    Oh yes let's blame the NFU for government incompetence, why not
     
    Old Tip likes this.
  15. farmerm

    farmerm Member

    Location:
    Shropshire
    Can’t see how a case would stand up given the agreements look watertight with their none committal on a payment schedule? A case could be taken against land agents who allowed clients to sign these unfair contracts... Of course the agents are not to blame for Natural England’s failing but they had a duty of care...
     
  16. Goweresque

    Goweresque Member

    Location:
    North Wilts
    Even if the fine print allowed them to not pay, having the contract scrutinised by a court could be interesting - they might be of the opinion that its a one sided contract and declare it 'unconscionable' and thus unenforceable:

    http://www.cebta.org.uk/an-unconscionable-contract/
     
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  17. Guy Smith

    Guy Smith Member

    Location:
    Essex
    It is 95% of the fund rather than the population. While there is a big differential in these two fields when the payment is at less than 75%, once you get above 90% things narrow so there's not much difference. I'm surprised to hear of problems with the commons because compared to previous years, things do seem pretty quiet and it's good to see the Minchinhampton top UKs finally done.

    If you are an NFU member, if you want to direct message me about your issues I can forward things to the team. It helps us keep tabs on what is happening.

    Generally BPS payment delivery seems as good as I've known it since it was introduced in 2014/15 but that's not to say it is satisfactory and we haven't forgotten those who are still waiting.
     
    livestock 1 likes this.
  18. Goatherderess

    Goatherderess Member

    Location:
    North Dorset
    What do they do in the rest of Europe for conservation schemes? Is each one country-specific then?
     
  19. farmerm

    farmerm Member

    Location:
    Shropshire
    There is no-one size fits all scheme, every country has different schemes targeting measures relevant to their regions climate, farming practices, wildlife and so on...

    This is the Irish one....

    https://www.agriland.ie/everything-you-need-to-know-about-glas/
     
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  20. Socksitis

    Socksitis Member

    The evidence that shows the due date for HLS payments will be difficult to find. It was understood that the handbook relevant to the start date of the agreement states, for us the the Second Edition October 2008 HLS handbook states on page 2 that we ' will receive a payment every six months from the start of your agreement for its duration'
    That has not been the case. The payment dates were all aligned, resulting in a common start date, but even so, this basic part of the rule book has not been adhered to. One year we received one payment. Payments, we thought then fell into a payment window; January to June 30th for the first half of the previous years agreement, then 1st July to 31st December for the top up, this then changed with the idea of the payment being split 75% and 25%, for us it has meant more money tied up for longer whilst RPA look at mapping and run their system checks.

    Whilst I hope a test case is taken, what better proof than the original handbook that formed part of an agreement?

    However, as in the same handbook, page 37; 'vary your agreement in line with changes to European law and in other exceptional circumstances.'

    Trouble is, where is this pursued? Natural England are dead in the water and the Rural Payments Agency will quite possibly pass the buck. It will be left hanging, with no resolution.
     
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