Nhs vs private health care

[primmiemoo]

Critical illness cover doesn't cover all critical illnesses, so take it out if you're certain that you won't develop something fatal but not common. There may be provision for extra cover for rarities, but if there is, it could be at a much higher premium. All a bit strange, because a terminal diagnosis from a rare but terrible illness would automatically be thought of as covered should the av individual on a bus be asked to express their thoughts on the subject.

Also be very aware that it's the NHS that will have to patch you up when your private health care provider makes a pig's ear out of that convenient procedure that you have diarised so carefully. The situation might have benefitted from private having co-operated with the NHS during covid (really do check first) , but, certainly historically, many private hospitals have not necessarily been as well equipped and skillfully staffed as NHS for when things go wrong.

 

[Will Blackburn]

I looked into private medical insurance 10+ years ago it was some of the small print that stopped me going ahead.
After treatment you were not covered for the same illness again within the next 5/10 years

For conditions pre-existing insurance?

 

[traineefarmer]

We don't insure, but use self-pay private for anything that the NHS won't do, can't do or bugger up entirely. Sadly, the list of things in the "bugger up" column is growing in my family's experience.

 

[milkloss]

The cost of private health insurance ramps up as you get older. I have family that wished they had put the money in a pot for any necessary procedures which have included spinal fusions, hip operations, and various other less important stuff such as ingrowing toe nails etc. They seem to think they're going to live forever!

as an aside the Mrs had gall bladder trouble years ago and the consultant, who does private work, wouldn't let her out of the NHS hospy because the private part couldn't give the potential care she needed. Had the op in a private but afterwards was in terrific pain, private didn't have fentanyl so they sent a nurse in a taxi to get some from the local nhs.
Also had a double ingrowing toenail op and the mobility staff that could provide crutches had gone home.... so had the pharmacists.
Father in law had pericarditis recently and was under the watch of a private consultant as an outpatient, it turned worse so got sent to the local nhs. His consultant went on holiday and then his colleague who only does nhs work was actually far better and communicable. They hassled about getting a private room but it wasn't allowed...... not enough experience and equipment in that part of the hospital.

private is good for scans etc though but IMO you get treated the same as an nhs patient but just a bit quicker. I also believe the staff tend to be more lazy and probably less likely to listen. Perhaps a bit controversial but is our experience of many visits to quite a few consultants and hospitals.

 

[Netherfield]

Up until this Covid started we had a private GP, could always get to see him the same day without problem.

When the original chap retired he sold it on to another who was based out of the area, but held a weekly surgery in a private hospital 8 miles away, then said hospital run by Spire set up it's own GP service and more or less got rid of our chap who was now 25 miles away.

Because of the fact I'd never seen a NHS GP for all my life I suddenly wasn't in the system, didn't have an NHS number, to get a Covid jab and had to register with a NHS doctors practice locally, increasing age and distance meant we now are not with the private GP anymore. Strangely enough I've been with an NHS dentist all my life and a NHS optician 30 years but neither required an NHS number, it took 8 weeks to get a number allocated so I could get the jabs.

One thing to remember is that the doctors and consultants in the private hospitals also work in your local hospital as well, and aren't always available at the drop of a hat because of that, and that a lot of the nursing staff are also topping up their incomes by working after doing a shift in the NHS, or working their days off and can therefore be a little tired at times.

I have to add I possibly owe my life to the private sector though, I got Salmonella and was passing blood, 2 a.m. my doctor came to the house and had me in the local private hospital and on a drip within two hours, he said at the time that if I'd had to wait for an ambulance, the syptoms could have been looked at as a minor problem, basically back stomach and the runs, and shoved to the back of the queue for the ambulance, and then had to queue for hours in A&E it could have been fatal.

 

[ollie989898]

you work in the nhs don’t you?

how do you see the service changing?

I work within the private sector and within the NHS so I have a foot in both camps. Both have their benefits and drawbacks in my view.

You can't reform the NHS for the same reason that you can't improve the quality of the literature in a library by simply re-arranging how you store, categorise, inventory or distribute the books.

Basically every rank and file reform of the health service basically results with the same people are sitting in the same or very similar chairs but with different sounding names. As I have mentioned before in other threads: the NHS is a segmented system of competing trusts and organisations. Some of them are totally privately owned and operate with the expectation of making a profit at the end of the day. The issue you have is that within the NHS is headed up by people who are going to try to preserve their own little fiefdom and protect the services they provide. As such there is categorically no stimulus or incentive to actively cooperate with other services which is why as I mentioned elsewhere, there will never be a single, unified NHS computer system or piece of software because none of the middle management want it to happen. For example, if the radiology department in trust X made all patient data instantly available to any healthcare provider in Britain, it would very much streamline patient care- an automatic 'yes, please' for patients everywhere you would assume. HOWEVER, by allowing this, it would make that same radiology department in trust X vulnerable to having their service taken away and provided by someone else. Though the amalgamation of services within a geographical area might well make sense for economic reasons, it won't make anyone happy when you suddenly realise you don't need the management team of radiology in trust X anymore because the team at trust Y can manage both workloads for minimal extra overhead.

You also have a lot of issues with NHS oversight and managers who are involved mostly in 'compliance' which means they write rules and invent policies all day whilst being afraid of their own shadows. I have had multiple nurses and doctors complain that there are too many non-clinical staff within the NHS and that there is little or no long term thinking. I have met experienced nurses with over 30 years service who have become fed up with the bureaucracy and elect to work as HCAs instead, or, just leave the NHS and join an agency which neatly removes them from many managerial posts but lets them carry on doing what they love- nursing people and often for more money.

The government for some time has also been quietly working away at bringing the doctor and nursing professions to heel and making them less political. This is one of the reasons you will not see a doctor in a white coat any longer- the Labour government did away with them in around 2005. You also won't find many dedicated rest areas designated solely for doctors, subtle changes but these are some of the examples that have been mentioned to me.

I don't know what the answer is. People understandably don't like the idea of a privatised NHS but do not realise that most GP surgeries are privately owned. though these days most people complain that GP services are pants so maybe privatisation isn't the panacea it may be thought to be. There are also some privately owned organisations running NHS services. Profit may well be a dirty word but it is true few businesses can afford large numbers of ineffectual staff- that being said, most of us will have our refuse collected by companies that are privately owned and the bins generally get collected on time and in good order?

The problem with health insurance is that when you really really need urgent treatment: because you've been hit by a bus etc, the private system can't (and won't) help you. The NHS and it's staff always get all the difficult and problematic cases and sometimes no amount of money will change this. Just because you offer up any amount of cash, doesn't mean private healthcare will definitely replace your hip- if you are a complex or problematic case then you can probably expect private providers to shy away from you. Trust me I have seen it myself.

 

[ollie989898]

The cost of private health insurance ramps up as you get older. I have family that wished they had put the money in a pot for any necessary procedures which have included spinal fusions, hip operations, and various other less important stuff such as ingrowing toe nails etc. They seem to think they're going to live forever!

as an aside the Mrs had gall bladder trouble years ago and the consultant, who does private work, wouldn't let her out of the NHS hospy because the private part couldn't give the potential care she needed. Had the op in a private but afterwards was in terrific pain, private didn't have fentanyl so they sent a nurse in a taxi to get some from the local nhs.
Also had a double ingrowing toenail op and the mobility staff that could provide crutches had gone home.... so had the pharmacists.
Father in law had pericarditis recently and was under the watch of a private consultant as an outpatient, it turned worse so got sent to the local nhs. His consultant went on holiday and then his colleague who only does nhs work was actually far better and communicable. They hassled about getting a private room but it wasn't allowed...... not enough experience and equipment in that part of the hospital.

private is good for scans etc though but IMO you get treated the same as an nhs patient but just a bit quicker. I also believe the staff tend to be more lazy and probably less likely to listen. Perhaps a bit controversial but is our experience of many visits to quite a few consultants and hospitals.

Private providers don't want cases they view as potentially problematic or outside their normal anticipated risks. They like wealthy but relatively healthy people who need a straight forward procedure with no prolonged aftercare and minimal risk of complications. In many private hospitals there is no standby resus/cardiology or AMU/ICU downstairs if the proverbial hits the fan and that focuses the mind. And after all, if you are the one doing the procedures, you are totally entitled to select which cases you take on and that you feel comfortable with within the resources you have. You only have so many working hours a week, why take them all up with difficult cases when you are trying to get as many done in a week and make money out of it?

 

[theboytheboy]

I am covered by my wife's private policy through work.

Bad back meant I got a MRI privately and maybe 20 sessions of physio.

Just as I was starting to improve a letter came through saying that I my back condition was "chronic" and so they would no longer fund physio.

To me that's like our tractor insurance saying it's a write off so we're not paying out......

 

[melted welly]

I work within the private sector and within the NHS so I have a foot in both camps. Both have their benefits and drawbacks in my view.

You can't reform the NHS for the same reason that you can't improve the quality of the literature in a library by simply re-arranging how you store, categorise, inventory or distribute the books.

Basically every rank and file reform of the health service basically results with the same people are sitting in the same or very similar chairs but with different sounding names. As I have mentioned before in other threads: the NHS is a segmented system of competing trusts and organisations. Some of them are totally privately owned and operate with the expectation of making a profit at the end of the day. The issue you have is that within the NHS is headed up by people who are going to try to preserve their own little fiefdom and protect the services they provide. As such there is categorically no stimulus or incentive to actively cooperate with other services which is why as I mentioned elsewhere, there will never be a single, unified NHS computer system or piece of software because none of the middle management want it to happen. For example, if the radiology department in trust X made all patient data instantly available to any healthcare provider in Britain, it would very much streamline patient care- an automatic 'yes, please' for patients everywhere you would assume. HOWEVER, by allowing this, it would make that same radiology department in trust X vulnerable to having their service taken away and provided by someone else. Though the amalgamation of services within a geographical area might well make sense for economic reasons, it won't make anyone happy when you suddenly realise you don't need the management team of radiology in trust X anymore because the team at trust Y can manage both workloads for minimal extra overhead.

You also have a lot of issues with NHS oversight and managers who are involved mostly in 'compliance' which means they write rules and invent policies all day whilst being afraid of their own shadows. I have had multiple nurses and doctors complain that there are too many non-clinical staff within the NHS and that there is little or no long term thinking. I have met experienced nurses with over 30 years service who have become fed up with the bureaucracy and elect to work as HCAs instead, or, just leave the NHS and join an agency which neatly removes them from many managerial posts but lets them carry on doing what they love- nursing people and often for more money.

The government for some time has also been quietly working away at bringing the doctor and nursing professions to heel and making them less political. This is one of the reasons you will not see a doctor in a white coat any longer- the Labour government did away with them in around 2005. You also won't find many dedicated rest areas designated solely for doctors, subtle changes but these are some of the examples that have been mentioned to me.

I don't know what the answer is. People understandably don't like the idea of a privatised NHS but do not realise that most GP surgeries are privately owned. though these days most people complain that GP services are pants so maybe privatisation isn't the panacea it may be thought to be. There are also some privately owned organisations running NHS services. Profit may well be a dirty word but it is true few businesses can afford large numbers of ineffectual staff- that being said, most of us will have our refuse collected by companies that are privately owned and the bins generally get collected on time and in good order?

The problem with health insurance is that when you really really need urgent treatment: because you've been hit by a bus etc, the private system can't (and won't) help you. The NHS and it's staff always get all the difficult and problematic cases and sometimes no amount of money will change this. Just because you offer up any amount of cash, doesn't mean private healthcare will definitely replace your hip- if you are a complex or problematic case then you can probably expect private providers to shy away from you. Trust me I have seen it myself.

Thank you.

 

[br jones]

44 a month with aviva ,everything covered ,included instant access to gp ,only thing not covered is teeth

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I work within the private sector and within the NHS so I have a foot in both camps. Both have their benefits and drawbacks in my view.

You can't reform the NHS for the same reason that you can't improve the quality of the literature in a library by simply re-arranging how you store, categorise, inventory or distribute the books.

Basically every rank and file reform of the health service basically results with the same people are sitting in the same or very similar chairs but with different sounding names. As I have mentioned before in other threads: the NHS is a segmented system of competing trusts and organisations. Some of them are totally privately owned and operate with the expectation of making a profit at the end of the day. The issue you have is that within the NHS is headed up by people who are going to try to preserve their own little fiefdom and protect the services they provide. As such there is categorically no stimulus or incentive to actively cooperate with other services which is why as I mentioned elsewhere, there will never be a single, unified NHS computer system or piece of software because none of the middle management want it to happen. For example, if the radiology department in trust X made all patient data instantly available to any healthcare provider in Britain, it would very much streamline patient care- an automatic 'yes, please' for patients everywhere you would assume. HOWEVER, by allowing this, it would make that same radiology department in trust X vulnerable to having their service taken away and provided by someone else. Though the amalgamation of services within a geographical area might well make sense for economic reasons, it won't make anyone happy when you suddenly realise you don't need the management team of radiology in trust X anymore because the team at trust Y can manage both workloads for minimal extra overhead.

You also have a lot of issues with NHS oversight and managers who are involved mostly in 'compliance' which means they write rules and invent policies all day whilst being afraid of their own shadows. I have had multiple nurses and doctors complain that there are too many non-clinical staff within the NHS and that there is little or no long term thinking. I have met experienced nurses with over 30 years service who have become fed up with the bureaucracy and elect to work as HCAs instead, or, just leave the NHS and join an agency which neatly removes them from many managerial posts but lets them carry on doing what they love- nursing people and often for more money.

The government for some time has also been quietly working away at bringing the doctor and nursing professions to heel and making them less political. This is one of the reasons you will not see a doctor in a white coat any longer- the Labour government did away with them in around 2005. You also won't find many dedicated rest areas designated solely for doctors, subtle changes but these are some of the examples that have been mentioned to me.

I don't know what the answer is. People understandably don't like the idea of a privatised NHS but do not realise that most GP surgeries are privately owned. though these days most people complain that GP services are pants so maybe privatisation isn't the panacea it may be thought to be. There are also some privately owned organisations running NHS services. Profit may well be a dirty word but it is true few businesses can afford large numbers of ineffectual staff- that being said, most of us will have our refuse collected by companies that are privately owned and the bins generally get collected on time and in good order?

The problem with health insurance is that when you really really need urgent treatment: because you've been hit by a bus etc, the private system can't (and won't) help you. The NHS and it's staff always get all the difficult and problematic cases and sometimes no amount of money will change this. Just because you offer up any amount of cash, doesn't mean private healthcare will definitely replace your hip- if you are a complex or problematic case then you can probably expect private providers to shy away from you. Trust me I have seen it myself.

I thought GPs had always been private contractors to the NHS, certainly have ever since Mrs Holwell joined GP management 30+ years ago.

You are spot on about critical care though, private health doesn't want the work as its way too risky. No private hospitals in this area have ICU facilities or a number of other specialities. They just throw you back at the NHS, including if you are half way through a private op and it goes badly wrong.

Private health care has its place and I subscribed to Ohra healthcare for 10 years (who were very good) but don't expect complete care from a private provider.

 

[ollie989898]

I thought GPs had always been private contractors to the NHS, certainly have ever since Mrs Holwell joined GP management 30+ years ago.

You are spot on about critical care though, private health doesn't want the work as its way too risky. No private hospitals in this area have ICU facilities or a number of other specialities. They just throw you back at the NHS, including if you are half way through a private op and it goes badly wrong.

Private health care has its place and I subscribed to Ohra healthcare for 10 years (who were very good) but don't expect complete care from a private provider.

Last I heard the government was making noises about making all GPs employed on salaries- I presume this is to get more direct control of them as access to GP services is now highly political.

There will be GP's that work in hospitals or in other settings who may be employed as such by these organisations.

In the shady background are reports of American investment companies trying to buy up GP surgeries because they smell profit in it- same as they have been buying up vet practices.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Last I heard the government was making noises about making all GPs employed on salaries- I presume this is to get more direct control of them as access to GP services is now highly political.

There will be GP's that work in hospitals or in other settings who may be employed as such by these organisations.

In the shady background are reports of American investment companies trying to buy up GP surgeries because they smell profit in it- same as they have been buying up vet practices.

They can't afford to take GP's fully into the public sector. For a start many own their buildings and the government would have to buy them.

It would also cost a bloody fortune in pay rises. On standard NHS pay scales they'd then be paid overtime for all the extra they do keeping up with the paperwork.

"Primary care" currently receives only a few % of NHS total budget yet delivers around half of all healthcare.

 

[Chae1]

A friends wife is a theatre nurse. She has worked for both the NHS and private healthcare providers. He says NHS everytime. The private health care providers she had worked for were like farmers, penny pinchers! They wouldn't let you open certain items pre op. With the NHS they just opened everything just in case and chucked it out if not used/needed.

 

[Lowland1]

A friends wife is a theatre nurse. She has worked for both the NHS and private healthcare providers. He says NHS everytime. The private health care providers she had worked for were like farmers, penny pinchers! They wouldn't let you open certain items pre op. With the NHS they just opened everything just in case and chucked it out if not used/needed.

And that’s why the NHS is in such a mess prolific wastefulness.

 

[Chae1]

And that’s why the NHS is in such a mess prolific wastefulness.

That did cross my mind too!

 

[puppet]

44 a month with aviva ,everything covered ,included instant access to gp ,only thing not covered is teeth

£44 will cover you until you become ill. Then you will see the small print kick in. Of course 'instant access'means the doctor will be sitting doing nothing for much of the day so quite an inefficient service in financial terms.
As stated above, if you are really ill with a complicated case then go NHS. Routine stuff, private may suit you.

 

[Lowland1]

That did cross my mind too!

It’s a bit like when you’re going spraying opening everything in the store and then picking what you want to spray then chucking the rest away. You wouldn’t do it if you were paying for it or if someone were to shout at you for doing it.

 

[xmilkr]

I’m in my 40s wife late 30s, 2 kids under 8.

we’re all fit and healthy, so is now the time to consider private health insurance?

Does anyone do this already?

Quick internet search gives a basic annual premium for me of £1250. Doesn’t seem excessive.

I can’t see the future nhs being anything like it’s former self. It’s gonna be phone/internet based primary contact, perhaps certain physio type services cut, longer waits for appointments etc. Just my opinion.

Not had any negative experience that’s prompted this, I just think we’ve not begun to feel the repercussions of the past 17months, government got no money, nhs needs lot of money, things gonna change, so looking at alternatives.

Used a private health scheme for past 54 years, wife never had a claim, l had two hernia ops, two shoulder ops, one new knee, 7 days in private hosp. with a pnuemonia virus and varies consultations, just wife and l at the moment both 79, both on a premium scheme at £380. each month.