No more new diesel or petrol cars from 2040 onwards

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by M-J-G, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. renewablejohn

    renewablejohn Member

    Location:
    lancs
    Lets not kid ourselves there not actually talking dams there talking weirs across rivers which the EU issued a directive to passify the greens. As soon as where out of the EU that directive can go in the bin.
     
  2. I haven't trawled through all seventy billion pages of this thread, but I assume there'll be an exemption for classic cars etc ? If not, it puts paid to the classic car market, doesn't it ?
     
  3. Greenbeast

    Greenbeast Member

    Location:
    East Sussex
    This is a new car ruling
     
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  4. It could get very hard to get petrol or diesel to run them on though.
     
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  5. Frankzy

    Frankzy Member

    Location:
    Jamtland, Sweden
    Might get pretty expensive but i can't see diesel or petrol disappearing for a long time.
    Not as long as there is a decently sized group of classic cars in driveable condition.
     
  6. Y Fan Wen

    Y Fan Wen Member

    Location:
    N W Snowdonia
    Not to mention diesel trains, lorries, boats, tractors, combines....
     
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  7. Greenbeast

    Greenbeast Member

    Location:
    East Sussex
    Most of those don't use service stations though...:D:D
     
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  8. Lincsman

    Lincsman Member

    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    And aircraft, the battery to get a 300t plane to Australia is very heavy.
     
  9. Frankzy

    Frankzy Member

    Location:
    Jamtland, Sweden
    Planes use kerosene though, and they also does not use a service station.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  10. Greenbeast

    Greenbeast Member

    Location:
    East Sussex
    I know the Rivian has been mentioned elsewhere here in December.
    Here is a Fully Charged walk around

     
  11. Scribus

    Scribus Member

    Location:
    Central Atlantic
    So who exactly is behind this great push for EV's? There are various groups who stand to gain.

    The first is those who sit on the worlds mineral deposits, or have shares in the mining companies. Step forward China who, it is claimed, have a controlling interest in 80% of the worlds lithium deposits and 40% of the terrestrial cobalt reserves. The cobalt, BTW, that is being mined by children in the Congo, but the EV lobby do not want to talk about that.

    Then we have the car manufacturers and their dream of built in obsolescence. Batteries are touted as lasting between 8 to 10 years, who is going to spend several thousand replacing a battery on a ten year old car? Nobody, the car is going to be scrapped, but a new one won't be bought, it will be leased hope the manufacturers, thus hiding the depreciation.

    Governments are also keen to have their hands on the data EV's will produce. There is I believe, a requirement for UK charging systems to have an internet connection, but that again is not spoken of. It is road pricing made simple, the car simply tells the government where it has been and you get charged accordingly. Tracking ones movements is bad enough, but it will also allow charging to be denied, thus crippling your ability to travel. It is not quite on the scale of the control that autonomous vehicles will provide to the state, but it's moving in that direction.

    There is much much more about EV's which is not being debated. Once you start scraping away at the hype surrounding electric vehicles you begin to realise that saving the planet has nothing to do with it, it's all about power and money, especially the money.
     
  12. Greenbeast

    Greenbeast Member

    Location:
    East Sussex
    One mustn't let perfect be the enemy of good.
     
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  13. Scribus

    Scribus Member

    Location:
    Central Atlantic
    The more I look the less good I see in EV's.
     
  14. It will save me a lot of money, there ends the discussion.

    The batteries in old cars are readily recycled. No cambelt, clutch, dual mass flywheel, DPF, belts, no starter motor or battery, virtually no transmission, and no fuel, no exhaust emissions and so hugely better for inner city areas where air pollution currently kills thousands.

    So what, they use rare earth elements, cobalt and lithium. The Congo and Chile stand to become massive industrial producers, that wealth being generated might be used to provide benefit in those areas.

    What exactly, as a consumer, are you complaining about? You have shares in BP or something?
     
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  15. Greenbeast

    Greenbeast Member

    Location:
    East Sussex
    I knew someone would be along to put it better than i could
     
  16. Loner

    Loner Member

    Location:
    South Manchester
    Lookslike Jaguar Landrover have made a decision on what they know. The diesel engine issue is nothing new, it was started way back when the scrappage scheme started.We will all be driving hover mowers soon .
     
  17. Scribus

    Scribus Member

    Location:
    Central Atlantic
    The EV lobby/industry has put about a terrific amount of disinformation over the last couple of years, much of which, unfortunately, is repeated here.

    First up Li-ion batteries are very difficult, dangerous and expensive to recycle. In fact, so expensive are they to process that it was proposed to just dump them in developing countries and pretend that they would help them establish a battery powered grid. Not heard much of that idea of late. The other components you mention are far more easily dealt with.

    Secondly, cobalt is a finite resource, there is simply not enough available to power the worlds fleet of vehicles. Land based resources will soon be exhausted and so it will need to be taken from the seabed, a mining operation which will destroy a more or less pristine environment. Not all batteries use cobalt, but the best ones do.

    China is a totalitarian communist state that has territorial ambitions, giving them such influence over global transport may not be such a good idea. The Congo, sadly, is a political basket case and any money generated is hardly likely to trickle down to ground level. Chile may be in a better position but South America is not renowned for being stable. Overall we will end up with mineral wars as well as oil wars, Afghanistan just happens to be sitting on huge reserves of various elements, and guess what....

    I have no interest in any oil company, in fact I am very much in favour of carbon recycling rather than releasing more from the ground. It's already done to a certain extent, let's do it some more.

    I wonder whether you might explain what, exactly, is killing thousands, and where?

    Anyway, don't want to start falling out with folk but it's a debate I have been following for a while now and at each turn I become ever more convinced that EV's are little more than a scam. Sure it's an opinion, but we are still allowed those, until the Chinese take over anyway.
     
  18. Lithium ion batteries can be recycled, I don't know where you got that information from. The supply of recycled lithium ion batteries at present is too small and so it does not make current economic sense to actually recycle them, the lithium is not the expensive part, the cobalt and nickel are more valuable and it is these materials that attract recycling efforts at present.

    There is over 7 million tonnes of cobalt in recognised reserves and that is without factoring in any increase in prices for the stuff. The Earth is a rather large chunk of rock.

    Air pollution is killing people worldwide, there is legions of studies on the effect of air pollution from vehicle exhaust if you require pointing in the right direction I would be happy to oblige.

    If China want to be the worlds leading battery producer I have no issue with that, they already dominate steel production yet the world has not caved in. I see no issue with it, other manufacturers will exist. They will not dominate global transport any more than they dominate the world because they are the leading producer of electronics or microprocessors.
     
  19. Pasty

    Pasty Member

    Location:
    Devon
    I am selling my Merc C320 as I no longer need it. The next car I buy will be an EV. You would be utterly crazy to do anything else.
     
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  20. Greenbeast

    Greenbeast Member

    Location:
    East Sussex
    "EV's are little more than a scam"

    Man alive, what a statement
     
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