No-till's environmental credentials under threat...

[Dan Powell]

One to annoy the zealots...

Context: I have been attempting no-till for 3 years. This year all crops look rubbish apart from ploughed / maxi-tilled stuff. Prior to this I was plough and combi-drilling everything except catch crops which were pigtail cultivator plus combi-drill. Soil is medium sandy, clay loam - the type most of you heavy land farmers dream about. I used to consider myself a reasonably good farmer.

Never used so much round-up - bad for the environment.

Never used so many slug pellets - bad for the environment.

Never had so much BYDV - caused no doubt by the MUST DRILL EARLY mantra.

Never had so many failures. This year at least one field of spring barley to reseed so far. Wheat looks rubbish.

Struggling to see the benefits for the environment frankly, although I'll grant that the slugs are thriving.

Is it the drill?
Is it the weather?
Is it the management?
Will it get easier?

Never had so much stress and the cost of round-up, pellets and extra seed would easily pay for the extra establishment cost of ploughing.

Seriously thinking about reverting to the old system. Especially as no-one has yet proved that no-till increases net organic carbon, but rather just stratifies it.

Discuss.

 

[marco]

did you drill it too early dan? its been bloody cold here up to now. there could be an argument for a light disking before drilling. do what you feel is right for you and your family and dont worry about a few people on the web. although this has been a shockingly wet year. alot of stuff that was ploughed near me have very deep tramlines in places so its not all rosy

 

[Flintstone]

What drill are you using Dan?

 

[Clive]

My guess is management - it has to be quite different to more conventional farming, involves significant re education

what's your rotation ?

 

[SilliamWhale]

The thing is you are looking at things with hindsight, and this is not me trying to say stick to no till because it makes no odds. Certainly I wouldn't be doing it just to save carbon.

What I've found has happened this winter is despite being warm and wet the growth rates were quite poor over winter and this has been exacerbated by a cold spring, so things look pretty rotten at the moment.

We base lots of decisions on what happened the year before. I think you will always wish you drilled some crops earlier and some crops later than you have done. On roundup I think its really good practice to design a rotation that doesn't need repeated doses of the stuff, once every 12-18 months would be a good thing to aim for and then you won't get the feeling of overreliance. I don't think you can blame DD for this years BYDV - 16 degrees in December is bound to exacerbate it.

If I were you I'd just review it all again in August rather than now. Look at the big picture of all your fields yields rather than looking at the best and worst. If you feel yields are worse and costs are up, then change - but remember the circumstances next year will be different again so don't change stuff just based on this year either ie it may be a dreadful spring barley year

I still think there's lots to learn about the best way to manage things.

 

[Hartwig]

That post could have been from me, only difference is I`m already 8 years in DDing....

Have had a lot of terrible years and failures in that time and always was sure to have learned from that to not let it happen again - and every other year it comes up a new problem that hasn`t been there before. This year it was a terribly wet autumn and winter, especially the period right after drilling was so rainy that it simply drowned the seed on my tight DDed soil where the ploughed fields simply soaked up the rain - turned it into a puddle but left the seed surviving.
See attached how my winter cereals (wheat and barley) look like now, I´ve just redrilled all bare or thin patches with oats just because I have fss oats lying around and sell all these stuff for an AD plant to chop it wholecrop - just to make a financial return for me to survive this desaster. A lot of blackgrass on this waterlogged and slumped soil-surface grown over winter as well and not fancy to spend a fortune on atlantis and spray on fields like these.
After driving the last 3 days round and round my fields to redrill I had 23 ha on the clock from a total of 74 ha !! And have only done the worst patches....
Hope it will become better anytime soon, but actually it feels like in a downcircle really !! Having said that, the last year was really good, nice weather and yields as good or better than neighbours.....

 

[Dan Powell]

did you drill it too early dan? its been bloody cold here up to now. there could be an argument for a light disking before drilling. do what you feel is right for you and your family and dont worry about a few people on the web. although this has been a shockingly wet year. alot of stuff that was ploughed near me have very deep tramlines in places so its not all rosy

That's the thing. I was hoping to have more family time with direct drilling but I don't because I spend the time saved scrabbling around in the soil trying to see why the stuff isn't growing.

It has been a cold spring and the failed spring barley is on a north facing slope. Even though it was warm and dry when drilled it came cold and wet afterwards. I think this is where placed fertilizer would be a godsend. Might upset the slugs in the slot as well. They were eating it off underground.

 

[Richard III]

Hi Dan,

I am sorry to hear it is not going to plan ATM, unfortunately I too am also looking at some poor crops this year.

This is my seventh attempt at No Till, I've been relatively happy with the first six, this year I am definitely not. The wheat on the poorer draining land looks awful, and is not going to miraculously improve. The problem is that the land has got that wet that the silt fraction has just completely slumped on the surface, resulting in lots of surface run off. Neighbours wheat put in at the same time grew like mad in the autumn and has come through looking really well.

I think slumping on the ploughed ground is helped by the surface clods created by the cycle of compaction and cultivation. My soil surface is now effectively pure earthworm casts and is finer than any conventional seedbed that could be made on this soil type. When this fine surface gets regularly and completely saturated, then I'm in trouble. I think ULD drilling has made it slightly worse, my crops sat there and didn't move last autumn, when others around were growing like mad.

In future I will try to drill earlier and use a slightly higher seed rate, with may be a pop up fert on the more susceptible soil types. This is definitely not a complete answer though, and at the moment it looks like a very wet winter means that my crops will not be as good as my neighbours. I am just praying that we don't get too many of them.

With regard to slugs, they weren't a problem here for the last two years but have been a pain this last autumn, partly down to my mismanagement, but not entirely. I couldn't do without roundup, but don't consider my use excessive. Fortunately there is no BYDV here, and no autumn insecticide used.

Poorly drained high silt content soils, in high rainfall areas, are difficult to No Till on.

 

[Dan Powell]

What drill are you using Dan?

Simple tine drill in John Deere colours. Good at creating tilth but no consolidation.

 

[Dan Powell]

My guess is management - it has to be quite different to more conventional farming, involves significant re education

what's your rotation ?

Probably right. Rotation is wheat, spring barley, beans, wheat, rape. Not too bad I thought. Spring barley after grazed cover crop looks good. After bare stubble a failure.

 

[Clive]

Probably right. Rotation is wheat, spring barley, beans, wheat, rape. Not too bad I thought. Spring barley after grazed cover crop looks good. After bare stubble a failure.

no farming system is ever going to be consistently successful on every acre every year so why would anyone expect any more of a zero-till system ?

I reckon this has been the hardest year I have had so far, autumn crops did go in well but I have had to use some slug pellets this time and was caught out by poor trash spread from the 12m header after OSR which doesn't look great on a couple of patches as a result. Im not sure zero-till is to blame however - i think the warm winter would mean increased slug pressure no matter what your establishment method ? even though I have had to use pellets I suspect under my old min-till or plough systems I would have used significantly more

I do worry about how much glyphosate we use but its no worse than it was under min till. not sure what the answer there is, i'm certainly not buying a plough anytimes soon ! maybe one day rotation will be smarter to minimise its use

I think diversity in cover and cash cropping is the key to long term and more consistent success

 

[Dan Powell]

What I've found has happened this winter is despite being warm and wet the growth rates were quite poor over winter and this has been exacerbated by a cold spring, so things look pretty rotten at the moment.

True but ploughed crops all around me look great which adds to the general feeling of doom. I said I'd give it 5 years and I will, but just feeling a bit disillusioned right now.

 

[Dan Powell]

That post could have been from me, only difference is I`m already 8 years in DDing....

Have had a lot of terrible years and failures in that time and always was sure to have learned from that to not let it happen again - and every other year it comes up a new problem that hasn`t been there before. This year it was a terribly wet autumn and winter, especially the period right after drilling was so rainy that it simply drowned the seed on my tight DDed soil where the ploughed fields simply soaked up the rain - turned it into a puddle but left the seed surviving.
See attached how my winter cereals (wheat and barley) look like now, I´ve just redrilled all bare or thin patches with oats just because I have fss oats lying around and sell all these stuff for an AD plant to chop it wholecrop - just to make a financial return for me to survive this desaster. A lot of blackgrass on this waterlogged and slumped soil-surface grown over winter as well and not fance to spend a fortune on atlantis and spray on fields like these.
After driving the last 3 days round and round my fields to redrill I had 23 ha on the clock from a total of 74 ha !! And have only done the worst patches....View attachment 315540 View attachment 315542
Hope it will become better anytime soon, but actually it feels like in a downcircle really !! Having said that, the last year was really good, nice weather and yields as good or better than neighbours.....

This is what I'm afraid of because in another 5 years time I'll be giving up at this rate... Full marks to you for perseverance though!

 

[SilliamWhale]

True but ploughed crops all around me look great which adds to the general feeling of doom. I said I'd give it 5 years and I will, but just feeling a bit disillusioned right now.

Then why not plough what you think where it will benefit and then move on from it? You may find by the time harvest comes you may not need too but its an option. At least then you know a bit more for next time etc.

p.s. no till will still look rubbish next to ploughed ground right up into May. Is it case of patches being bad or whole fields being bad? I've got some poor patches where volunteer beans and poor chopper performance hampered growth and it looks pretty shocking from afar but not so bad up close. Today feels like the first proper warm spring day here btw.

 

[SilliamWhale]

That's the thing. I was hoping to have more family time with direct drilling but I don't because I spend the time saved scrabbling around in the soil trying to see why the stuff isn't growing.

It has been a cold spring and the failed spring barley is on a north facing slope. Even though it was warm and dry when drilled it came cold and wet afterwards. I think this is where placed fertilizer would be a godsend. Might upset the slugs in the slot as well. They were eating it off underground.

This is the type of scenario that in hindsight probably went in too early. That isn't the no tills fault though its the decisions we make iyswim.

 

[Dan Powell]

This is the type of scenario that in hindsight probably went in too early. That isn't the no tills fault though its the decisions we make iyswim.

Sown too early maybe yes. No crystal ball here. Wet spring, but it was a dry spell feeling warm. Sowed 25th March. Another field sown the same time looks good, but not north facing and a bit sandier soil and more fertile due to grazed turnips.

This learning curve is even steeper than I thought.

 

[Dan Powell]

What we really need is a drill manufacturer to make a decent no till drill that places fert as standard without it costing over £40k for 3 metres.

 

[Dockers]

Dan, it is all about management and rotation ( Clive is right ! )
The starting point is fairly critical . Your soils were probably in a poor state when you started after ploughing and power harrowing. Get some help now or visit some people who are making it work locally.
It does work, the start can be painful though.

 

[its yourself]

What we really need is a drill manufacturer to make a decent no till drill that places fert as standard without it costing over £40k for 3 metres.

Our Claydon Hybrid fert was less than that.

But I don't know what they are now mind.

 

[SilliamWhale]

What we really need is a drill manufacturer to make a decent no till drill that places fert as standard without it costing over £40k for 3 metres.

Weaving?