No trim feet and fly strike.

[Longlowdog]

I have been trying to get onboard with this no trim sheep feet idea, I really have. I haven't trimmed a foot since last October in my ewes. Tomorrow I'm trimming the lot. I have never had so many cases of maggots in the 'armpits' of my sheep as this year. My ewes are never usually an issue with fly strike, they get shorn reasonably late and are clean of backside. But this year is taking the pee. Always the armpit. A number of folk I've spoken to have blamed dirty hooves and scratched skin. I now believe it. Each ewe struck has had Aladdin's slippers and muck in the folds of hoof material. I couldn't stand the look of the feet but the vet said in time they'd wear off ( not happened in 10 months on our soft loam) but enough's enough the girls are getting a tidy up and I'm calling time on my experiment.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

I cant get into the no trim idea. Dairy cows are encouraged to be routinely trimmed twice a year, I do appreciate there are some butchers out there that cut feet and that is a reason to not encourage trimming, also those that are a tiny bit overgrown shouldn't be trimmed as no need and hoof will grow more, but the protocol of AB rather than trimming? Occasionely when I trim back I find a piece of grit/ stone just inside hoof, well if followed theory of no trim and just AB and cull its surely encouraging over use of ab or unnecessary culling. And those odd feet where they have a problem deep down, when exposed are sorted with bathing alone, im old school but have monitored my few feet problems and have seen cheaper and more successful treatment by using careful trimming despite what the modern experts say

 

[liammogs]

In theory its nice idea, but its not!! We trim horses feet, we trim dairy cows feet even sucklers iff needs be, faor enough cull on lamness, there are some ewes in my flock that have never had foot rot and others that are always offending.......thats somthing that i agree with but as for a 'no trim' it will never work!! Even us people cut our nails haha

 

[yellowbelly]

IME they get struck in the feet and while they are laid down the mawks crawl onto their bellies. IMHO, it's a combination of two modern practices, not foot trimming and pour on fly treatments. When we used to dip they got chemical all over - feet and all. Pour ons get nowhere near their feet.

 

[ajcc]

Scald, routine walk through formaline when yarded.

 

[firther]

stopped trimming mine about 4 or 5 years ago after advice on here, 1st year I got quite a lot that were getting lame but there as been a big improvement year on year since then. I don't have to even run them through the footbath that often either(oct last year,last time)

 

[andybk]

we lightly trim routinely once a year , when weaning , it gives a chance to check bag / teats properly along with everything else ,dont do lambs at all , the one issue a lot miss is culling anything with poor shape feet , i have been really hard on any misshapen hooves and pasturns last 4 or 5 years ,in fact if i turn over a ewe with v long nails she goes on the cull list anyway , cull value has been good so better keep a youngster than plod on with something that can get problems and pass it on to the rest , one of or NZ friends once said 10% of the sheep give 90% of the problems and if your selling rams its important to get potential problems down .

 

[Longlowdog]

Andybk, totally agree in principle, but, have you ever bought or tried to sell a tup or breeding female that had less than perfectly trimmed feet? One can try speaking to potential buyers but not 1 in 100 buys your line. Same with grass fed tups at the mart, unless you've been plugging the line for a generation folk simply assume your stock is not as good as the preened and pampered show kings and queens.
The point raised above about AB use has real merit, a trim and a stand in Zinc Sulphate meant I used far less Oxytet' before I started my wee experiment. My sheep never walk on roads, graze periodically and quite simply do not abrade their feet in the course of a day. If I were to cull my ewes on feet growth I doubt I'd have anything other than a couple of poor doers (on the cull list for being poor doers) left. I might be damning myself by stating that but I know it is the same for many other pedigree sheep breeders and a heap of commercial sheep men. I know this because I've been employed on many farms to trim feet by the thousands over the years.
Soay's on Soay, Heb's in the Hebrides might have evolved to wear their feet at a rate appropriate to their growth but modern rapidly developed breeds simply did not have any attention paid to hoof wall growth rates because it was of no consequence in their development because it takes a minute to address once a year.

 

[Grassman]

IME they get struck in the feet and while they are laid down the mawks crawl onto their bellies. IMHO, it's a combination of two modern practices, not foot trimming and pour on fly treatments. When we used to dip they got chemical all over - feet and all. Pour ons get nowhere near their feet.

I had that problem badly one year. Sheep seemed ok and sat quietly when looking round them. I would of been better disturbing them in hindsight. Maggots between their toes spread to their chests and in a few days numerous bad flystrike cases. Difficult to spot at first glance with being underneath.

 

[Nithsdale]

Guess it depends soil/ground type... we have never routine trimmed sheep feet, and hopefully never will.

My worst offenders are the bought in TexX ewes. Home bred stock just don't need done.

 

[capfits]

Footvax and cull.

 

[Downton_shep]

Might need to wait till we’ve had some rain to soften them up a bit!

 

[Jameshenry]

Not trimmed any ewes in 3 years, ewes are run through zinc sulphate when they come in for dosing etc, any that are persistently lame get a jab of zactran and ear marked for culling,

 

[Recoil]

We have stopped routinely trimming and find it works well. Anything that gets trimmed twice is culled. I don't think i've trimmed a foot this year out of our 130 ewes.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

If I have to trim a sheeps foot it’s dead

 

[delilah]

If I have to trim a sheeps foot it’s dead

you should be more careful then.

 

[Tim W]

20+ years without routine trimming of feet, (maybe once in that time i think i've used a footbath?)
If they get very long they may want trimming and then culling?
You wont fix your foot problem in 10 months----changing genetics takes generations

 

[case 5140]

Not trimed my flock of 500 ewes and 100 shearlings for the last 10 years...

 

[andybk]

Andybk, totally agree in principle, but, have you ever bought or tried to sell a tup or breeding female that had less than perfectly trimmed feet? One can try speaking to potential buyers but not 1 in 100 buys your line. Same with grass fed tups at the mart, unless you've been plugging the line for a generation folk simply assume your stock is not as good as the preened and pampered show kings and queens.
The point raised above about AB use has real merit, a trim and a stand in Zinc Sulphate meant I used far less Oxytet' before I started my wee experiment. My sheep never walk on roads, graze periodically and quite simply do not abrade their feet in the course of a day. If I were to cull my ewes on feet growth I doubt I'd have anything other than a couple of poor doers (on the cull list for being poor doers) left. I might be damning myself by stating that but I know it is the same for many other pedigree sheep breeders and a heap of commercial sheep men. I know this because I've been employed on many farms to trim feet by the thousands over the years.
Soay's on Soay, Heb's in the Hebrides might have evolved to wear their feet at a rate appropriate to their growth but modern rapidly developed breeds simply did not have any attention paid to hoof wall growth rates because it was of no consequence in their development because it takes a minute to address once a year.

am in total agreement , (Btw my sheep are all setstocked on small paddocks so they get very little wear either so more important to get the right genetics )
you all know my thoughts on feeding and the rest and the people that buy from sales , but if only for your own workload , poor shaped feet that can harbour foot bacteria should be as important as that lovely head or backend , I judged the zwartbles at the welsh this year and the reserve champion probably lost top spot because his feet were a bit overgrown , I dont have a problem doing it for sale or show , to be honest time the animal is groomed and trimmed feet are the last thing to worry about , . I look on in dismay when i see poor pasturns or feet getting bid up ringside , "but just look at the body" poor feet will just be another workload on a commercial farm do you really want to footbath lambs all summer ? Teeth are another issue , i was always taught you should be able to get a penny on edge between front of teeth and edge of pad , this years bath and west , teeth were at best level on the rossette winners of our breed quite a few just over , everyone i spoke to didnt have a problem with it .

 

[Longlowdog]

I can't change genetics in ten months but I can stop harming what I have to work with. I haven't had to apply fly control (horrible chem's with the longest withdrawal periods of any chem's I use) for the previous 5 years or used anywhere near as much AB as I've done this year . What is worse, an hour a year nipping the tips off feet before they grow over long or spending the cash on fly control and ABs on a breed every breeder known to man raises for its terminal traits on commercial ewes? If every Beltex, Tex', Suff', Char' in the land was culled tomorrow for feet I suspect there would be a dearth of terminal sires come the autumn.
With very few exceptions there just are not enough breeders producing enough tups to be able to cull 100% for 100% of the issues. Monitoring teeth, toes, mothering, milking, hardiness, etc in addition to the required terminal characteristics for most small scale breeders of terminal sires is a compromise. If you produce a limited number of tups and females you'd have 2/3 of bu**er all squared left if you culled every lamb, its sire and dam for every trait everyone considered their own personal bugbear. I doubt very many of the large producers could stand it either.