No worms in DD land

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Interesting comments, but most posts have focused on why or why not the DD land was lacking in worms.
I was also interested in why the continually ploughed land had so many worms, as my reading of the last few years suggest ploughs are worm killers?
Ploughs are not worm killers
its the power harrow tight behind that killsworms along with slugpellets
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
As a newbie to this and 18 years out of practical farming ( if you can call it that as bag and bottle was management company of choice weapon) how do worms say your soil is healthy? I’ve seen countless worm piles on a sand/jogging track today!
curious to learn for my own knowledge
Drainage for a start, including creating your soil structure without the need for mechanical cultivation.
Then breaking down organic matter into plant nutrients.
I think I am right in the fact that it is worms that pull down into the soil straw stubbl, which is why it disappears after a while from the soil surface of a No-tilled crop.

But, something is clearly going wrong where the OP has been Soil testing DD’d land and cannot find many worms.
And this is why I’d like @Warnesworth to add his pennies worth.
 

anzani

Member
No north American worms were Lost in the last ice age.
And that could be part of the answer to the original post. If the population of worm species are dramatically reduced or extinguished over a wide area, how long will it take to repopulate? Sideways migration will occur eventually if conditions improve but it could take years. The worms in manure are mainly brandlings not earthworms. There are something like 25 species of worm within the UK
 

anzani

Member
Its dull around here without the pub!
Seems that they even have their own supporters club that you could join:

How much fun for just £5 per year .............
 
Location
North Notts
There are rubbish farmers that cultivate there are also some very good ones

There are rubbish farmers who direct drill there are also some very good ones


I could take up ballet tomorrow and call myself a ballet dancer ......... doubt I would be any good at it though !
taking my daughter tomorrow if you fancy tagging along ? i'll even buy you a coffee afterwards if you give me some tips on direct drilling
 

CPF

Member
Arable Farmer
I no longer believe chicken muck, sewage sludge or digestate actually benefit the soils. I think they help achieve bigger yields but are more short term benefits.
Strawy cattle or pig muck (or sheep muck) is the best thing for this by miles.
Chicken muck mixed with compost may be a decent compromise
chicken muck has a big benefit for soil . I can not see why you think this .
 

CPF

Member
Arable Farmer
It’s not a long term benefit. It’s a boost on crop it’s applied to due to its nutrient value, but I don’t think it has residual benefits into following crops.
I think you are wrong , it has big benefits . I have a lot of knowledge on chicken muck.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I'm not sure I should be posting in a cropping thread when I've no experience but here are my thoughts as a livestock farmer.
The soil is a complex biome which can be easily affected by any changes. Everything we do or don't do will have an impact as well as many other factors outside our control such as weather.
One of the biggest effects I noticed was in 2011/12 [I think] when the soil was basically waterlogged for 18 months and the life was taken from the soil. It took a couple years for all the beetles etc. to get back to normal.
It was at a similar time that I visited a field just after it had been covered with 'dirty water' and the surface was absolutely covered with white, dead worms.
This leads me to believe that it is very difficult to assess the relative effects of different cropping techniques but it seems obvious that the bigger the changes, the bigger the impact and the more frequent the changes, the longer the recovery.
Min-till or D/D must have the advantage of causing less disturbance but this will be negated by excessive use of chemicals. It could better to plough and use less chemical or leave margins for the organisms refuge to help repopulate.
As someone who knows nothing about arable farming, I do wonder how these huge plains which are continuously cropped can regain any kind of 'soil health' without having to wait for generations.
What I like to see to make me think my soil is healthy, is for a 'cow pat' to be colonised by insects within hours of being produced and to be subsequently broken down and incorporated into the soil within a couple weeks.
 
Probably should post this under the DD categories but felt it may not be viewed by non DD folk.

Been soil sampling on a couple of large direct drilled farms recently and consequently dug a lot of holes. One of the farms was about 1200 acres, been direct drilling for about 15 years. Stubbles looked very poor, ground like concrete but what I noticed was hardly any worms. Probably saw 5 in the 600 holes I dug.
Another DD farm was a very similar picture but for the first time this year they've done some heavy cultivations and a bit of ploughing on some blocks.

Tested about 200 acres on a farm the same week, who plough every field, every year and nearly every time I dug a hole, I saw a worm or accidentally cut it in half.
Comparing the soils, I know which one I'd prefer to be a worm in.
Was it Clives Place? Worms have maybe been furloughed?
 

CPF

Member
Arable Farmer
We do DD and plough .In our rotation as we grow a lot of veg.
Two years veg beating the soil to death .We apply compost for some of the veg crop , Then it goes into cereals where we feed the soil with muck , chicken and cattle muck . we use Slug pellets . We use herbicides and pesticides. But the main aim is to feed the soil healthy soil benefits everything . After it’s been DD it is ploughed up back in veg . We have plenty of worms.
B89FA37E-58C0-4E1B-8D8E-109B2A4A5BC6.jpeg
The picture I posted was put in things that make me smile back in may
 

Hampton

Member
BASIS
Location
Shropshire
I think you are wrong , it has big benefits . I have a lot of knowledge on chicken muck.
I agree with you in terms that it can help develop biomass in the soil and also that it will help nutrient levels, however as a straight product it will not build soil structure as it is neither fibrous nor plentiful enough
 

CPF

Member
Arable Farmer
I agree with you in terms that it can help develop biomass in the soil and also that it will help nutrient levels, however as a straight product it will not build soil structure as it is neither fibrous nor plentiful enough
May I ask ? do you use it.
 

milkloss

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
What I like to see to make me think my soil is healthy, is for a 'cow pat' to be colonised by insects within hours of being produced and to be subsequently broken down and incorporated into the soil within a couple weeks.
Now you mention this it makes me think. Cows come home late October and run the silage ground before they come in yards and last winter there was a couple of fields that held the 'pats' nearly all winter. It was strange this happened and I had never seen it before. One had had plenty of fym on it the previous year but had been sprayed for docks in that year and the other field is a very tired field with an ochre issue and plenty of springs in it although hadn't been sprayed for a few years at least. We actually had to harrow both fields in spring to tidy up the dung.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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