No

robbie

Member
BASIS
Another question, how much total are others thinking of putting on barley this coming year, assuming fert has been bought at £500-£600 ton.

I used to grow decent yielding winte malting barley with 70 units as a 3rd cereal but when I upped it to 100 units yields improved so I think that's where I'll be this coming year.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Another question, how much total are others thinking of putting on barley this coming year, assuming fert has been bought at £500-£600 ton.

I used to grow decent yielding winte malting barley with 70 units as a 3rd cereal but when I upped it to 100 units yields improved so I think that's where I'll be this coming year.
Urea or an? £500 for urea and I'd be banging 100kg (80 units) on as soon as I could travel and the same on a month later. At £600 for AN, would be a different kettle of fish entirely.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Not much more than three weeks now to the NVZ earliest for nitrogen on the hybrid WBs - potentially the best return available from what is now, apparently, a scarce resource.

Will 30kg do? (60kg last year).
Just because it’s allowed is it the best plan🤔? I know you are in a different country but I’m with @robbie on this 14th feb be plenty early enough here
 

bankrupt

Member
Location
EX17/20
Just because it’s allowed is it the best plan🤔? I know you are in a different country but I’m with @robbie on this 14th feb be plenty early enough here
40 or 50 years ago or so we always got fairly decent yields of WB here from 30kg in September and 30 kg in December - actually peaking at 10t/Ha in 1979.

Since then, due to the latest advances in plant breeding, growth regulators, fungicides and agronomy in general, we've been going sideways with a 30 year average of just under 7t.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Not much more than three weeks now to the NVZ earliest for nitrogen on the hybrid WBs - potentially the best return available from what is now, apparently, a scarce resource.

Will 30kg do? (60kg last year).
Yes
Was just working through this late last night for a client, 42kg/ha is his sweet-spot under current economic constraints for maximising potential profit
you can apply more with much greater ease than picking it up and selling back wet granules to the supplier
 

bankrupt

Member
Location
EX17/20
AN.

I've gone to 180 units on barley but haven't seen the return on my land I feel barley Winter yields plateau at about 120-130 units.
Fair enough.

Here, in a dry year (2010, 2011, 2013, 2018, 2020), 120 units was too much, whereas in a damp year (2014, 2017, 2019), 180 was too little (for best margin).
 
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Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
40 or 50 years ago or so we always got fairly decent yields of WB here from 30kg in September and 30 kg in December - actually peaking at 10t/Ha in 1979.

Since then, due to the latest advances in plant breeding, growth regulators, fungicides and agronomy in general, we've been going sideways with a 30 year average of just under 7t.
Was that due to extreme seasons? You often talk of historic weather so you may have an idea? Last 30years disappointing but typical of many arable crops? Many talk nostalgically of ‘84 wheat yields and today’s being no better but I doubt many grow ww the same way as 84? And if they did they wouldn’t get same yields? Don’t know the answer, just playing devils advocate always interested to hear your thoughts. Ps- pleased with 8t/ha here
 

Phil P

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North West
Fair enough.

Here, in a dry year (2010, 2011, 2013, 2018, 2020), 120 units was too much, whereas in a damp year (2014, 2017, 2019), 180 was too little (for best margin).
Ive found 160kg (130 units) to be our sweet spot on conventional barley, anything more and I’ll be scrapping it off the floor!
Managed to average 9.8t/ha this time and with barley @ £220/t it’s tempting to stick at 160kg especially with crops currently looking extremely good.
I’ve enough product to go to 160kg again but I’ll review it in the spring depending on how the crop looks coming out if winter and what the season is looking like weather and price wise.

As for the OP, personally I think the first dose on N on barley can make or break the crop. To little on the first hit and then not been able to get back on soon enough can be a big mistake!
 
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Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
I always reckon that with Winter Barley, you must get some on before it starts to go yellow in Feb, by “Ice rods trucking” it on, on a frost.
Just how much to put on in total at these high prices is the question. But that 1st dose needs to be enough to prevent that yellowing and too much tiller loss.
Though it could be argued to too many tillers, might cause shrivelled grains if not enough N is put on in total to fill them.So getting the right balance on that 1st dose will be important.

These high prices of N, mean that we can no longer afford to hit that spot where the N response curve stops being a straight line and starts to curve. Those days are now gone. We must now instead work out what the optimum rate is when comparing the cost of N/Kg to the expected yield and sale price/tonne of crop.

I’d suggest that with Urea in the lower £400’s per tonne (if bought early enough), I am reducing my total N quantity by 20% (compared to when it was upper £200’s) and expect to get about a 10% drop in yields. That appears to be what will give me the highest margin this coming harvest on both Wheat and Barley.
But at £700/tonne that rate reduction, the total needs to come down by nearer 50%, with a 25% reduction in expected yield!
And that assumes you you will be able to actually get hold of it.

Assuming that the whole World is in the same boat, unless N prices return to nearer the £300 levels, all surpluses of grain will be gone sometime during 2023, unless grain prices go up beyond the high prices they are now to justify it!


Maybe it is the Covid crisis that has prevented this news hitting the headlines yet. Or is it that Governments do not want to start another panic yet?
 

Phil P

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North West
Yes.

Funnily enough, the first 10t club in the late 70s was for WB growers and, due to drought, wheat yields here were very poor locally in 1984, except where we irrigated.

As to long run yields, ours peaked in 1995/96 and the moving average has been falling ever since.

:cautious::cautious:
Any idea as to why yields started to tail off at that point? Change in weather pattern or establishment method maybe?
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Yes.

Funnily enough, the first 10t club in the late 70s was for WB growers and, due to drought, wheat yields here were very poor locally in 1984, except where we irrigated.

As to long run yields, ours peaked in 1995/96 and the moving average has been falling ever since.

:cautious::cautious:
Yes, the ICI 10 tonne club was started in the late 70’s using Winter Barley, mostly Direct drilled relatively early, using Gramoxone pre drilling. But maybe the main reason as to how those high yields were achieved was due to generally lower rates of N that we use today (or until very recently!) and the use of new fungicides like Bayleton and Bayleton BM.
Higher rates of N cause increased fungal disease levels.
 

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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