Non Alignment

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
Exactly! Self-imposed = OK, well done, you've finally got it. :)

Whichever reg's we choose as a base, maybe similar to the EU or to the US or whatever we think is in our interest, and reg's that we can change as markets change. UK Ag will change, it will have to, and it will be healthier for it.

Worse off? I'll bet you a grand now that in ten years UK Ag is in a better state than that of your EUtopia.
Would you offer me the same bet? Let’s not fkuc about make it 10 grand.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Doesn’t look like UK will be united in 10 years...
Entirely possible, I think it unlikely, but even if so, what remained wold be more united.

Remember that Boris's first act was to make himself Minister for the Union, expect a lot of investment to improve intra-UK business via transport etc., and also expect an awful lot of UK public service jobs to be moved to and / or created in Scotland. All of which should have been done long ag and will, of course, mean more trade between Scotland and the rest of the UK and more jobs that won't be there if the SNP get their way.

On that tack, every argument that the SNP have made against the UK leaving the EU can be applied to and are an order of magnitude greater with regard to arguments against Scotland leaving the UK. And, yet, the UK leaving the EU is bad but Scotland leaving the UK is good... weird, eh? :unsure:
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Would you offer me the same bet? Let’s not fkuc about make it 10 grand.

I thought about making a much bigger offer in the first one but, although I think it far more likely I'd win than not, I can't be certain and won't make a bet a I can't be sure of honouring. That last bit is key, because around then I'll have several children at or about to start university or maybe needing help with a deposit for a house. That will mean a yearly additional outgoing of >£50k p.a., at current prices... :arghh:

So, no, I won't make it ten grand, but will happily agree to my original stake with you too. :)
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
Exactly! Self-imposed = OK, well done, you've finally got it. :)

Whichever reg's we choose as a base, maybe similar to the EU or to the US or whatever we think is in our interest, and reg's that we can change as markets change. UK Ag will change, it will have to, and it will be healthier for it.

Worse off? I'll bet you a grand now that in ten years UK Ag is in a better state than that of your EUtopia.
I don't gamble money, never have.
Subjective . We don't agree now on the way forward , can't see us agreeing ever.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
I don't gamble money, never have.
Subjective . We don't agree now on the way forward , can't see us agreeing ever.
If you are certain it's not a gamble; I'm pretty sure, but of course can't be certain. As for agreeing on hypotheticals, probably not and no need to; but it would be a foolish for anyone to 'disagree' with the facts as they come to pass, one way or the other.

If the practical economic side of Brexit is bad - and I mean in the long-term, short-term jitters don't count - I'll admit it, I'll still be glad to be out of the EU, but if the benefits aren't as great as I expect, I'll admit it - as I would have respected the referendum result, had it gone the other way. Hope you'll do the same in the alternative.(y)
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
If you are certain it's not a gamble; I'm pretty sure, but of course can't be certain. As for agreeing on hypotheticals, probably not and no need to; but it would be a foolish for anyone to 'disagree' with the facts as they come to pass, one way or the other.

If the practical economic side of Brexit is bad - and I mean in the long-term, short-term jitters don't count - I'll admit it, I'll still be glad to be out of the EU, but if the benefits aren't as great as I expect, I'll admit it - as I would have respected the referendum result, had it gone the other way. Hope you'll do the same in the alternative.(y)
Is 10 years long term, just out of short approaching medium I would think.

If I'm wrong and UK Agriculture thrives, then I'll happily admit it. I don't need to put money on it or strop off in a huff.
Subjective as to what is seen as a success though. If sheep farming becomes unprofitable and the national flock dwindles to nothing, but farmers become park keepers and are still "farming" environmental payments is that a success?

Also, if the UK becomes a Singapore type economy you may say " The UK is a great success" but that may leave the city wealthy better off and a large part of the population becoming more and more disenfranchised. Is this a price worth paying. ?
 

Mek

Member
I’m beginning to think that those that voted for Brexit without rational explanation are now jumping on any positive and saying that’s what they voted for while still ignoring the negatives.
 

yin ewe

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co Antrim
I’m beginning to think that those that voted for Brexit without rational explanation are now jumping on any positive and saying that’s what they voted for while still ignoring the negatives.

Ability to be make our own trade deals
Ability to set our own rules and regulations
Ability to set our own immigration rules
A layer of government removed
Last but not least, 9bn quid to spend when and where we want.
 

mwj

Member
Location
Illinois USA
You seem to have the same group voting on the rules, why do you think they will change after brexit?

Just the same in my country. We vote them in and they do as they please. They are much more concerned with political clout and big money than they are with the voters that elected them.
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
You seem to have the same group voting on the rules, why do you think they will change after brexit?

Just the same in my country. We vote them in and they do as they please. They are much more concerned with political clout and big money than they are with the voters that elected them.
Errrrrr
We've actually now got a group that can make rules. Unlike a stalemate as previously.
 

mwj

Member
Location
Illinois USA
Unless there hands were tied you are listening to excuses, which allow them to be voted in again.

How much ''serious'' legislation do you think is blocked by EU rules.

They will always have an excuse to do absolutely nothing, if you let them get away with it!
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Is 10 years long term, just out of short approaching medium I would think.

If I'm wrong and UK Agriculture thrives, then I'll happily admit it. I don't need to put money on it or strop off in a huff.
Subjective as to what is seen as a success though. If sheep farming becomes unprofitable and the national flock dwindles to nothing, but farmers become park keepers and are still "farming" environmental payments is that a success?

Also, if the UK becomes a Singapore type economy you may say " The UK is a great success" but that may leave the city wealthy better off and a large part of the population becoming more and more disenfranchised. Is this a price worth paying. ?
Daft analogy, Singapore has an area about 1/1000th that of the UK and a population about 1/8th the size. The UK would not and does not need to follow Singapore's path across the board, but it can learn a lot from Singapore's experience, particularly its economic liberalisation and 'can do' spirit regarding the projects it has undertaken - something we had, lost and are now regaining.

But, if the UK were to emulate Singapore, pro rata, it would have the third largest economy in the world, after the US and China; that would mean an awful lot of money for infrastructure and public needs and rewarding effort to protect the environment... and a lot of money to spend on best quality produce. :)

Subjective as to what failure is, if businesses can only survive with subsidy and protectionism, they aren't businesses, they're beggars seeking alms, and have failed. Looking at you lot who like the EU and want it to keep funding your attempts at business, I doubt very much that you'd care what you get your subsidy for, be it pseudo-commercial farming or park-keeping, so long as you get it...
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Unless there hands were tied you are listening to excuses, which allow them to be voted in again.

How much ''serious'' legislation do you think is blocked by EU rules.

They will always have an excuse to do absolutely nothing, if you let them get away with it!
Our legislation has very, very rarely been 'blocked' by EU rules, but it has had to be framed within them. (y)
 

yin ewe

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co Antrim
Unless there hands were tied you are listening to excuses, which allow them to be voted in again.

How much ''serious'' legislation do you think is blocked by EU rules.

They will always have an excuse to do absolutely nothing, if you let them get away with it!

True but at least they can't blame EU legislation now, the buck stops with them and if they start making rules that the people don't like they can be chucked out at the next election. At least that's how democracy is supposed to work.
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
Daft analogy, Singapore has an area about 1/1000th that of the UK and a population about 1/8th the size. The UK would not and does not need to follow Singapore's path across the board, but it can learn a lot from Singapore's experience, particularly its economic liberalisation and 'can do' spirit regarding the projects it has undertaken - something we had, lost and are now regaining.

But, if the UK were to emulate Singapore, pro rata, it would have the third largest economy in the world, after the US and China; that would mean an awful lot of money for infrastructure and public needs and rewarding effort to protect the environment... and a lot of money to spend on best quality produce. :)

Subjective as to what failure is, if businesses can only survive with subsidy and protectionism, they aren't businesses, they're beggars seeking alms, and have failed. Looking at you lot who like the EU and want it to keep funding your attempts at business, I doubt very much that you'd care what you get your subsidy for, be it pseudo-commercial farming or park-keeping, so long as you get it...
Time is going to tell.
 

mwj

Member
Location
Illinois USA
True but at least they can't blame EU legislation now, the buck stops with them and if they start making rules that the people don't like they can be chucked out at the next election. At least that's how democracy is supposed to work.


Do not worry about the elected. They already have a list of ''reasons'' compiled, as to why nothing will change.

When they venture into the world to trade, they will have a whole list of ''bullies'' to pick from. They will always have an excuse.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
I must say I have a real problem with non alignment,
Whenever I am making something it never seems to line up right but not to worry as someone once said you can't weld till you can bridge a gap
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.2%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 65 34.8%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,289
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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