Non so stupid as farmers

[banjo]

I know I'm in a minority but I'm looking forward to an exit, farming needs a kick in the Arse at the moment. The first priority these days is what grant can I get and it should be what stock or crops can make a profit.
I mean look at the glastir and other schemes, it's designed to stop you farming. You cannot make a living farming it that way without bribes and then you've had it for five years.
Most seem to be chasing the brown envelope ( I don't blame them, it's the system that allows it ) instead of looking to the future, the future is less suport so it's better to get used to it now. our own country's systems will help us because it's in its interest to, the eu won't because they don't want us to be more successful than their farmers.
I can tell you one thing for sure, if we stay in and people start moaning about the sub going in a year or two, I will remind them that it's to late to start wanting change then.
This chance won't come again, so grasp it with both hands!

 

[Suckndiesel]

I know I'm in a minority but I'm looking forward to an exit, farming needs a kick in the Arse at the moment. The first priority these days is what grant can I get and it should be what stock or crops can make a profit.
I mean look at the glastir and other schemes, it's designed to stop you farming. You cannot make a living farming it that way without bribes and then you've had it for five years.
Most seem to be chasing the brown envelope ( I don't blame them, it's the system that allows it ) instead of looking to the future, the future is less suport so it's better to get used to it now. our own country's systems will help us because it's in its interest to, the eu won't because they don't want us to be more successful than their farmers.
I can tell you one thing for sure, if we stay in and people start moaning about the sub going in a year or two, I will remind them that it's to late to start wanting change then.
This chance won't come again, so grasp it with both hands!

Just out of interest would it bother you if your sfp disappeared?

 

[its yourself]

Book me in for a head then.......


...........but not from one of those 5 million Turks that are soon to join our cramped Island if we stay in !!

Lies about Turks.

Again.

Not happening.

Not true.

No Turks.

No Turkish EU membership.

But keep telling lies.

It's all leavers have.

 

[Ashtree]

Aye farming is doing really well at the moment

Farmers that vote to stay in are about as foolish as they come!

But doesn't history tell you fair and square that EU as an entity and most EU members in their own rights been far more farmer friendly than any UK government since time began.

Your logic purely from a farming perspective is arse about face[emoji58]

 

[bobk]

I know I'm in a minority but I'm looking forward to an exit, farming needs a kick in the Arse at the moment. The first priority these days is what grant can I get and it should be what stock or crops can make a profit.
I mean look at the glastir and other schemes, it's designed to stop you farming. You cannot make a living farming it that way without bribes and then you've had it for five years.
Most seem to be chasing the brown envelope ( I don't blame them, it's the system that allows it ) instead of looking to the future, the future is less suport so it's better to get used to it now. our own country's systems will help us because it's in its interest to, the eu won't because they don't want us to be more successful than their farmers.
I can tell you one thing for sure, if we stay in and people start moaning about the sub going in a year or two, I will remind them that it's to late to start wanting change then.
This chance won't come again, so grasp it with both hands!

You'll get more than a kick up a arse , you'll get a damn good rodgering

 

[endeavour]

I am perplexed at most of the remain supporters addiction to CAP and SFP in particular. No one has guaranteed
their continuation at present levels or indeed at all. The cap is ill conceived for disparate areas extending from Greece and probably Turkey to the tip of Scotland there is nothing common about farming in these areas,
and hence continuation of the cap policy is doomed to fail sooner than later. We as farmers have a captive customer base to feed and exporting is not impeded if we continue to produce quality Welsh lamb beef etc. My one hope is that farmers and the rest of the electorate turn out and vote as a large % the worst thing would be a low turnout and a decision made by only 25% of the electorate we have had enough arguments about this with regards the Welsh assembly.

 

[4course]

I would happily take the risk that farming in the uk would be fine without any sfp but it would have to be on the guarantee that we did not import any produce wether raw or processed into the uk that was subsidised in any way from abroad and preferably get rid of these costly assurance schemes that are making me uncompetitive but it wont happen

 

[banjo]

Just out of interest would it bother you if your sfp disappeared?

I believe sfp should be capped and all entitlements stay on the ground when bought or sold, thus all farmers are in the same boat.
When a family for instance make a start on their journey up the farming ladder buying a farm, they have to contend with a further bill for entitlements. It's scary just thinking about it!
Same with renting, most rent without sfp when starting on their own. If entitlements stayed with the ground there could be an easy calculation to split beetween farmer and the person renting and the sfp would be available for both

 

[Pond digger]

Farmers demanded the MMB be broken up saying that competition would bring efficientcies and better milk prices how wrong they were.
Next farmers were eager to sign up to crop assurance when it was first started, they thought it would lead to better prices and if not then they could drop out. Except the trade soon made all crops assured.

Now i see that 2/3 of farmers want out out of EU Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
The last 40 years have been the most profitable farmers have had ,with it be by intervention guarantying prices or Direct payments and subsidy.

I hear that farmers who want out of the EU are saying subsidies keep inefficient farmers going and if those inefficient farmers could be forced out of business then it would free up land for them to then take on to farm Dooh.
I class myself as a large efficient business but there is no way i want to get larger at those less fortunate than myself. expense.
The British government is not going pay equal amounts to farmers that the EU does, whether it is conservative or labour.
We should all thank the french with their burning a tyre in the street attitude to getting farm support.
Iam voting in and all farmers should think very carefully before casting us all adrift without a life boat.
Rant over and breathe.

It's a good argument: I'm not sure you're assumptions are completely correct, but I hear you.

I've voted out, but I have no expectations of being financially better off if we leave. It's about more than short term gain, and the fact that the turkeys are prepared to vote for Christmas is telling: we're voting for our survival as an independent, free, nation.

 

[rob1]

I wonder how many of these BPS addicts supported subs for the coal/steel industries, how many are driving british built tractors etc etc, I thought we were a proud industry, self reliant and independent, it looks to me that the remain supporters are looking out for themselves instead of whats best for the country as a whole, perhaps thats why MM failed and all the great marketing initiatives got no where, just too greedy and out for themselves, the fat cats at the top of the NFU and CLA selling themselves for a silver dollar are a prime example .
It might be bloody for some but farming needs a big shake up as for big company farms they will be the first to go

 

[DrWazzock]

I wonder how many of these BPS addicts supported subs for the coal/steel industries, how many are driving british built tractors etc etc, I thought we were a proud industry, self reliant and independent, it looks to me that the remain supporters are looking out for themselves instead of whats best for the country as a whole, perhaps thats why MM failed and all the great marketing initiatives got no where, just too greedy and out for themselves, the fat cats at the top of the NFU and CLA selling themselves for a silver dollar are a prime example .
It might be bloody for some but farming needs a big shake up as for big company farms they will be the first to go

Yes, it's time to put the general direction of the country above personal gain. Then in the long run, we will be better off, but there might be some short term pain as there is with any worthwhile project.

For too many years we have sold out to line our pockets at the expense of the the next generation.

 

[4course]

cant see why big farms will be the first to go ,think it would be the opposite look whats happened to the corner shop the blacksmith/ small engineer the local post office the butcher etc etc

 

[DrWazzock]

I can manage without cheap foreign holidays and cheap fags and booze from the continent. I could manage without the BPS if it was phased out over five years and my business would be a lot more efficient for it.

Time to grasp the nettle, take the bull by the horns and get on.

 

[DrWazzock]

cant see why big farms will be the first to go ,think it would be the opposite look whats happened to the corner shop the blacksmith/ small engineer the local post office the butcher etc etc

We still have a blacksmith/small engineer while the big ag machinery franchises have left the town. He doesn't have the overheads. And some of the other ex staff have set up their own parts businesses and mobile mechanic services and are doing alright. Again they don't need such a big mark up and understand their customers aren't made of money.

I can't think of one thing on my large neighbours estate that hasn't been funded by the taxpayer, be it fencing of high level stewardship land or restoration of trout streams. It really is stretching it to the limit when some of the richest folk in the country can't be asked to fund their own sporting estates.

 

[rob1]

cant see why big farms will be the first to go ,think it would be the opposite look whats happened to the corner shop the blacksmith/ small engineer the local post office the butcher etc etc

Simple, overhead costs, its a generalisation of course but the employed labour will be getting the living wage at least and many much more, quite rightly, also pension,holiday and sickness costs, also they will want reasonable kit to drive, small farms will work for less and wont have holidays, pensions or sickness and will often do work off farm if they have to. They of course have to want to live like that and no doubt some will say rubbish and either give up or change, the big estates with owners who have high drawings may not be so willing to change

 

[4course]

Simple, overhead costs, its a generalisation of course but the employed labour will be getting the living wage at least and many much more, quite rightly, also pension,holiday and sickness costs, also they will want reasonable kit to drive, small farms will work for less and wont have holidays, pensions or sickness and will often do work off farm if they have to. They of course have to want to live like that and no doubt some will say rubbish and either give up or change, the big estates with owners who have high drawings may not be so willing to change

surely a farm has to provide a living how ever meagre for one family and as you say overhead costs are the killer it will get to the point where one man cant do the work and run the business to earn enough to live and at the minimal margins we are on now for producing food cant be done ,I need £50 a week just to pay the council tax and thats the profit on the first 50 acres for a start need the next 100 to put food on the table and if im not earning at least the living wage there is no point so in the long run probably better off diversyfying / earning non farm income and letting the land with me living in the nice house in the country , im not going to tie myself or family to a life of drudgery which is the alternative and so imo farms will disapear of any size but the land ( arable) will be farmed by mr big ltd and the hills will go back to bracken