Non so stupid as farmers

[nivilla1982]

Turkey has a large military. The army was historically a guarantor of ensuing Turkey kept its avowedly secular system of government. There is a debate however that the current leadership of turkey are moving in a more Islamist direction and away from the plan of the founder of modern turkey Ataturk (spelling) after the collapse of the old Ottoman Empire. One assume of the Greeks and Cypriots are nailed on certainty to oppose Turkish membership. However given bailouts etc you could argue the EU has the leverage to change those opinions.
Obviously the Turkish military is fairly large due to dealing with the Kurds, historical antagonisms with regional neighbours etc.

 

[Henarar]

I thought that too TBH

may change my mind yet
only a fool won't
change there mind that is

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Why is it when I think of New Zealand I see Vibrant !Young !Exciting, Go Ahead ! when I think of UK I think of an Old Man on Life Support . Is New Zealand really like that or was it just a unachievable dream ?

 

[turbo]

Why is it when I think of New Zealand I see Vibrant !Young !Exciting, Go Ahead ! when I think of UK I think of an Old Man on Life Support . Is New Zealand really like that or was it just a unachievable dream ?

What do you do with your land at the moment?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

What do you do with your land at the moment?

Silage Haylage Hay Grazing Potatoes and some being reseeded and drained , the bit of SFP we get I am putting back into land improvement, ditching reseeding etc

 

[Suckndiesel]

Well if a brexit happens and uk gov is in charge of farming, say for instance in the worst case scenario that they start using agriculture as a bargaining chip to make trade deals with other countries, what does that mean for uk agriculture?

 

[fudge]

Well if a brexit happens and uk gov is in charge of farming, say for instance in the worst case scenario that they start using agriculture as a bargaining chip to make trade deals with other countries, what does that mean for uk agriculture?

We do not need to answer that question because the leave campaign is not a government in waiting.

 

[Adam@Rumen]

My worry is that the British public see us as rich Range Rover driving numpties, and once they see how much is received in subsidies there will be uproar. I can see them being cut/given to the NHS or other public sector services.

 

[banjo]

My worry is that the British public see us as rich Range Rover driving numpties, and once they see how much is received in subsidies there will be uproar. I can see them being cut/given to the NHS or other public sector services.

That is what's happening though, huge farms getting more money to buy more ground to get more money. The school run in London is the only other place you will find these huge 4 by 4s as no one else can aford them, there £50.000 each for f**ks sake!
Do you think it's right that some havnt got a home and in another sector they are chucking money at the already wealthy.
I think the country will make the correct desisions for everyone and won't let agriculture down. The sfp will be better targeted to the younger and also well run farms, thus encouraging a revival in the industry of smaller farm buisneses not relying on only one stream of income. ( the brown envelope )
The large farms will have the bulls**t removed out of the way and can get on with making a profit, or huge losses, depending on if they are as good as we hear they are all the time.
Farmers should have help to get a few legs up the ladder, but then it should be left to the farmer involved to do the rest!

 

[Henarar]

All that is fine @banjo but if the farmer just over in France or Ireland is still getting his brown envelope and our gov are letting imports in from places like this and more unhindered, we are on the back foot before we start

 

[Suckndiesel]

All that is fine @banjo but if the farmer just over in France or Ireland is still getting his brown envelope and our gov are letting imports in from places like this and more unhindered, we are on the back foot before we start

If that were the case that subsidies were to disappear here and cheaper food comes in from other countries that we can't compete with on price, does it just eventually mean that land prices and rent would then have to fall as the current land prices wouldn't be justifiable?

 

[turbo]

If that were the case that subsidies were to disappear here and cheaper food comes in from other countries that we can't compete with on price, does it just eventually mean that land prices and rent would then have to fall as the current land prices wouldn't be justifiable?

Since when has farm profitability had anything to do with land prices?

 

[DRC]

Nigel farage just on radio saying by being in EU the housewife is paying £40 week too much for shopping.
This can only mean one thing, that the outs want cheaper food.
By by most family farms, hello bigger and bigger agri companies.
Think hard about this!!

 

[Suckndiesel]

Since when has farm profitability had anything to do with land prices?

I didn't say it had. What I'm trying to get a few opinions on is that if we exit the eu and the U.K. Government just decided to bring in cheap food from abroad, farming will be tighter again than it is now. I read in one of the other brexit threads someone commenting about during the Great Depression of the 1930s the British government brought in a lot of cheap grain from the states and Canada and farmers in Britain couldn't make ends made with some walking of the land. I'm just wondering what yous think would happen in a similar situation nowadays?

 

[turbo]

I didn't say it had. What I'm trying to get a few opinions on is that if we exit the eu and the U.K. Government just decided to bring in cheap food from abroad, farming will be tighter again than it is now. I read in one of the other brexit threads someone commenting about during the Great Depression of the 1930s the British government brought in a lot of cheap grain from the states and Canada and farmers in Britain couldn't make ends made with some walking of the land. I'm just wondering what you'd think would happen now in a similar situation?

While there are still tax benefits from owning land land will never be cheep.As for rents if no body pays the high rents then the price will fall,but no one is forcing people now and my guess is if you think rents are too expensive now even if all the subs go you will still find people willing to pay more than you think it's worth.

 

[DRC]

Historically, every time there's been. CAP reform, the U.K. Government of whichever colour has argued for reduced direct support, so I just can't see a post brexit agriculture being supported, apart from maybe a small environmental payment dangled as a carrot, with all the x compliance nonsense wrapped up in it.
We would end up competing against supported farmers in Europe, right on our doorstep, but still be bound by all the rules and regs, as we all know that the British love rules and regs and jobsworths.
I agree with @marshbarn
Turkeys voting for Xmas !

 

[wilber]

I rewatched boris on countryfile and he made a massive point about rules and regs of the EU for farming, then contradicted everything he'd said by agreeing we'd still need to do what europe wants to trade with it.

Farms will still have to abide by EU regs whether were in or out. Processors and supermarkets will make damn sure of it. It shocks me to the core that people are that naive to think it will be any different.

 

[7610 super q]

Whilst I agree with the above, My calculations suggest my payment will be down to £30/ acre by 2019 (Wales).
That's not enough to be sustainable. (for me anyway). Keeping farmers incomes at just slightly above COP is insulting.
We really are in a rut. Big faceless companies employing immigrants to pick bog standard, tasteless, cheap fruit and veg to flog to supermarkets sums up all that is wrong with British agriculture
I take the view that things can't get much worse. I fancy a change. Rightly, or wrongly, I'm voting out.

 

[alex04w]

Historically, every time there's been. CAP reform, the U.K. Government of whichever colour has argued for reduced direct support, so I just can't see a post brexit agriculture being supported, apart from maybe a small environmental payment dangled as a carrot, with all the x compliance nonsense wrapped up in it.
We would end up competing against supported farmers in Europe, right on our doorstep, but still be bound by all the rules and regs, as we all know that the British love rules and regs and jobsworths.
I agree with @marshbarn
Turkeys voting for Xmas !

Have you ever thought of why the UK government thinks like that over CAP reform?

In my opinion it is not a case of the UK government hating farmers and wanting to cut off subsidies just because they are farmers / always moaning and holding their hand out. It is due to the amount of money being poured into CAP across the EU and the UK is a large contributor / net contributor to the EU and CAP takes up the lions share of the budget. If the UK gets the subsidies slashed across the EU, then they would not have to contribute so much to the EU.

That is a whole different argument to slashing subsidies in a key industry like farming in a post Brexit independent sovereign UK.

I see no problem with the UK saying on the one hand they want CAP slashed to save on contributions to the EU and avoiding supporting our opposition to become more competitive against us, and on the other hand supporting UK farming post leaving the EU , as that would be clearly in the UKs national interest in those new circumstances.

 

[banjo]

Whilst I agree with the above, My calculations suggest my payment will be down to £30/ acre by 2019 (Wales).
That's not enough to be sustainable. (for me anyway). Keeping farmers incomes at just slightly above COP is insulting.
We really are in a rut. Big faceless companies employing immigrants to pick bog standard, tasteless, cheap fruit and veg to flog to supermarkets sums up all that is wrong with British agriculture
I take the view that things can't get much worse. I fancy a change. Rightly, or wrongly, I'm voting out.

Now that's a good post