Non stun/stun

[Smith31]

So all those who are against non stun slaughter don't sell any animals live?

You're never going to win. Lets state the facts.

Firstly every cull ewe and cull cow abattoir should have more vetinary presence dedicated to livestock coming off transport. Any cull animals found lame or pregnant should be destroyed and the haulier and farmer prosecuted.

Most of the objectors are from the North of England, they will happily sell their stock in Longtown, Aberdeen, Thirsk Darlington, Northallerton, Bentham, Acklington and through dealers etc. Knowing full well that their stock is going to halal and kosher plants. But will also take the moral high ground on here.

How can it be acceptable in 2018 to send sheep from Ireland to northern marts, then to Birmingham and abattoirs around London. If animal rights are watching they should look in to these practices. Why are we concentrating on the last 10 seconds of a animals life, when it is being starved for days on livestock wagons.

A major poultry abattoir pulled out of Scotland recently and also abandoned the producers, due to not wanting the chickens having to travel further for slaughter. Why is red meat so different.

Animal rights need to visit halal abattoirs take videos and distribute them around the mosques showing pregnant ewes etc being slaughtered. These people need to be shown the crap they are being fed.

Morrisons will then quite happily buy these ewes for £10 to use in their pies.

 

[unlacedgecko]

No doubt you refuse all pain relief when or if you ever need major hospital operations and should you suffer a terminal illness you will of course choose to die in agony. As whats good for the goose/lamb is good for the gander/gecko

Why would I refuse pain relief? I'm not a sheep/lamb/cow. Humans are different to and superior to animals. I wear clothes, live in a house and eat cooked food. My stock dogs live outside, wear only collars and eat raw flesh.

When I've disbudded calves I've given them lignocaine. When I treat lame sheep i give them metacam.

 

[Werzle]

I'll not swerve anything .

1,2,3.

I'd suggest it's a false equivalence to suggest disbudding is the same as trimming toenails.

I haven't suggested disbudding, castration and non stun slaughter are the same. They all compromise welfare, but to differing degrees.

I think as Brexit looks and subsidies end it would be rather foolish to alienate a significant proportion of the domestic and international lamb market.

Slitting throats of animals that havent been stunned is a tad more than compromising welfare! Dont get me started on brexit bulls**t, as a nation we democratically voted to leave but each day it gets watered down and europe must have jumped with glee when farage wasnt given a job in the negotiation team. We waived the white flag and europe have had us on the back foot ever since, and all i read in the farming press is people/nfu etc whinging about what might happen and how we cannot go on without our farmer dole rather than sticking there chests out and looking forward to a new era. If we were watching this play out in russia etc our politicians would be calling for regime change , sighting oppression. Brave men and boys gave there lives for this country and all we've done since is let others win it back through the back door and now we cannot enforce laws for fear of an uprising. And im a conservative voter!

 

[lim x]

Your never going to win. Lets state the facts.

Firstly every cull ewe and cull cow abattoir should have more vetinary presence dedicated to livestock coming off transport. Any cull animals found lame or pregnant should be destroyed and the haulier and farmer prosecuted.

Most of the objectors are from the North of England, they will happily sell there stock in Longtown, Aberdeen, Thirsk Darlington, Northallerton, Bentham, Acklington and through dealers etc. Knowing full well that stock is going to halal and kosher plants. But will also take the moral high ground on here.

How can it be acceptable in 2018 to send sheep from Ireland to northern marts, then to Birmingham. and abattoirs around London. If animal rights are watching they should look in to these practices. Why are we concentrating on the last 10 seconds of a animals life, when it is being starved for days on livestock wagons.

A major poultry abattoir pulled out of Scotland recently and also abandoned the producers, due to not wanting the chickens having to travel further for slaughter. Why is red meat so different.

Animal rights need to visit halal abattoirs take videos and distribute them around the mosques showing pregnant ewes etc being slaughtered. These people need to be shown the crap they are being fed.

Morrisons will then quite happily buy these ewes for £10 to use in their pies.

The title of the thread is Halal, concerning stun/non stun and yet you are bringing a whole load of other wrong doings, that probably most on here don't agree with.
2/3/4 wrongs do not make a right. Start your own thread on these other issues, and let them be discussed, or take your concerns further if what you see is not to your liking...I for one do not like or agree with what you have mentioned.

Back on topic, I would like to see clear labelling on packaging/menu's, so we can them make an informed decision. Consumers can vote with their feet and make their choice, it should not be a secret how the animal was killed.

 

[Smith31]

The title of the thread is Halal, concerning stun/non stun and yet you are bringing a whole load of other wrong doings, that probably most on here don't agree with.
2/3/4 wrongs do not make a right. Start your own thread on these other issues, and let them be discussed, or take your concerns further if what you see is not to your liking...I for one do not like or agree with what you have mentioned.

Back on topic, I would like to see clear labelling on packaging/menu's, so we can them make an informed decision. Consumers can vote with their feet and make their choice, it should not be a secret how the animal was killed.

This thread is about halal. Who deals with the ewes? The halal trade. If you are going to criticise, then be prepared to accept criticism too.

Why is it acceptable for farmers to send ewes into abattoirs whilst they are in lamb, why are major abattoirs sending letters out to farmers stating that they will not accept pregnant cattle?

Why does the OVS in each plant not have access to scanners?. Why aren't cameras installed in each abattoir facing the unloading door of each wagon to detect lame animals?.

Animal rights should employ slaughtermen on slaughter lines and see the true horrors at the evisceration point and the FSA should take note, why are pregnant and lame animals being sent for slaughter in halal plants in 2018 its far more barbaric than halal slaughter.

How hard is it to trace tag numbers and then carry out full farm inspections?. Farmers are wealthy individuals imagine the fines revenue FSA!

 

[Northeastfarmer]

This thread is about halal. Who deals with the ewes? The halal trade. If you are going to criticise, then be prepared to accept criticism too.

Why is it acceptable for farmers to send ewes into abattoirs whilst they are in lamb, why are major abattoirs sending letters out to farmers stating that they will not accept pregnant cattle?

Why does the OVS in each plant not have access to scanners?. Why aren't cameras installed in each abattoir facing the unloading door of each wagon to detect lame animals?.

Animal rights should employ slaughtermen on slaughter lines and see the true horrors at the evisceration point and the FSA should take note, why are pregnant animals being sent for slaughter in 2018 its barbaric?

Any animal found pregnant at slaughter should be traced back to the farmer and they should be prosecuted and fined

 

[nelly55]

Smith31,No sick ,injured or pregnant animal should be sent for slaughter.Thats why our vet confirms all cull cows are empty.You seem to know what goes on so please could you answer this question what happens to pregnant tb reactors .

 

[Smith31]

Smith31,No sick ,injured or pregnant animal should be sent for slaughter.Thats why our vet confirms all cull cows are empty.You seem to know what goes on so please could you answer this question what happens to pregnant tb reactors .

They don't go to a halal plant!

 

[nelly55]

They don't go to a halal plant!

Thank you for your reply but I take it they are still killed carrying a calf.

 

[Smith31]

Thank you for your reply but I take it they are still killed carrying a calf.

Yes I gather they are. Maybe a point worthy of a individual thread?

 

[Werzle]

Thank you for your reply but I take it they are still killed carrying a calf.

No ,under welfare they can be kept to calve down if they are heavily pregnant and rear it for a short time too.

 

[nelly55]

That’s good to hear,you see so many farmers loosing cattle to tb it must be heartbreaking.We are lucky to be in tb4 but have had 18 months plus of testing after a case nearby and we were in the 3k.

 

[Bojangles]

Given the future of our meat sector what are your thoughts on us having to service more markets overseas. If the future of our industry relies on large quantities of halal meat then what would you suggest we do? No Halal and collapsed industry or halal and keep farming?
I am strongly opposed to Halal But...

 

[unlacedgecko]

Given the future of our meat sector what are your thoughts on us having to service more markets overseas. If the future of our industry relies on large quantities of halal meat then what would you suggest we do? No Halal and collapsed industry or halal and keep farming?
I am strongly opposed to Halal But...

"Never have your principals so high you cannot lower them to suit your xirxcircumsta"

Winston Churchill

 

[yellowbelly]

No Halal and collapsed industry or halal and keep farming?
I am strongly opposed to Halal But...

While I agree it is important to discuss these matters, it seems to me that they always seem to lead to a certain amount of confusion.

It is not the Halal slaughter that is the problem - it is the NON-STUN Halal slaughter that is, IMHO, the problem.

Like it or not Muslims are major customers for the UK sheep industry and if we want to keep it then Halal slaughter is a requirement, but this is 2018 and in this day and age there is no place at all for non-stun slaughter in a civilised society.

 

[Bojangles]

While I agree it is important to discuss these matters, it seems to me that they always seem to lead to a certain amount of confusion.

It is not the Halal slaughter that is the problem - it is the NON-STUN Halal slaughter that is, IMHO, the problem.

Like it or not Muslims are major customers for the UK sheep industry and if we want to keep it then Halal slaughter is a requirement, but this is 2018 and in this day and age there is no place at all for non-stun slaughter in a civilised society.

Agree with all you say but I can not change what the customer wants.
The farmer can only sell what the market requires

 

[Castle Farm]

It's a given then..We don't mind our animals being subjected to ritual slaughter as long as Muslims and Jews keep on buying our meat.

Does anyone on here believe in this rubbish about gods ?

 

[Bojangles]

It's a given then..We don't mind our animals being subjected to ritual slaughter as long as Muslims and Jews keep on buying our meat.

Does anyone on here believe in this rubbish about gods ?

Nope!!!!!!!!
We all mind to be fair. Would be interesting to know who on here turns down buyers from abattoirs on this basis?

 

[nelly55]

If the standard for farm assurance is stun,then why be farm assured.Yes my cattle go direct to slaughter at a stun only ,when the day arrives they can’t thats the day I stop rearing cattle.The point is yes they Maybe are a good customer but it’s got out of hand that it’s becoming the norm and before long the slaughter industry in this country will be entirely non stun.Answer this someone if other countries I believe Poland for one have totally banned non stun ,Just what is the problem.Ill tell you it’s because our feelings beliefs and welfare don’t count,just put it on the shelves the idiots won’t complain ,won’t know and if they do complain we’ll frightened them with threats of religionous rights.Oh no I didn’t want to bring religion into it again but at the end of the day is this religion/welfare.It is a painful death for bovines according to veterinary reports.

 

[Bojangles]

If the standard for farm assurance is stun,then why be farm assured.Yes my cattle go direct to slaughter at a stun only ,when the day arrives they can’t thats the day I stop rearing cattle.The point is yes they Maybe are a good customer but it’s got out of hand that it’s becoming the norm and before long the slaughter industry in this country will be entirely non stun.Answer this someone if other countries I believe Poland for one have totally banned non stun ,Just what is the problem.Ill tell you it’s because our feelings beliefs and welfare don’t count,just put it on the shelves the idiots won’t complain ,won’t know and if they do complain we’ll frightened them with threats of religionous rights.Oh no I didn’t want to bring religion into it again but at the end of the day is this religion/welfare.It is a painful death for bovines according to veterinary reports.

So what stops every livestock farmer from getting it changed. Surely if everyone is against it they can do something about it