Norwegian Red Vs. Swedish Red for crossbreeding.

Discussion in 'Dairy Farming' started by Water Wheel, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. Water Wheel

    Water Wheel Member

    Should I be using Norwegian Red ?

    I’ve been crossbreeding for several years , Holstein x Swedish Red X Montbeliard, back to Holstein. and am well pleased with results , seems to suit our basic system .

    I’m trying to make a comparison of Swedish Red Vs. Norwegian Red bulls , but not making much progress.

    Anyone got experience of the two breeds for crossbreeding or can anyone provide links to sites that make valid comparison.

    As said, a basic self feed system , on a manufacturing contract. Yield around 7500 Lts
     
  2. Jamer

    Jamer Member

    Location:
    Glos
    We are milking Hojem and Holund NR, A Linne and St Hallebo SR, also Facet DR. The NRs are smallest with the DR Facet looking like a big black and frankly frail Holstein. We are 8500-9000 on Tmr and summer grazing and at those yields we find you have to watch udders. Feet are disappointing despite all the marketing,- not so much with regard to lameness but from a poor shape/overgrowing view.

    Also use a lot of German Brown Swiss, all crossing back and forth on Holstein and would take the BS any day over the Scandi Reds. Better udders feet and carry more flesh than the DR particularly. They cross well on HF adding strength and the only counts against them are they are larger than the NR and extended gestations. Trying some Jersey as well for the fun of it.
     
    The Agrarian likes this.
  3. upnortheast

    upnortheast Member

    Location:
    Northumberland
    Had 14 days on tour a few years ago. Didn`t see anything I`d like to have at home.in Norway Better cattle in Sweden & even better in Denmark.
    Nothing beats going to see for yourself
     
    watcher72 likes this.
  4. TheRanger

    TheRanger Member

    Location:
    SW Scotland
    Have never understood why the Ayrshire doesn't seem to be considered when doing the three way ProCoss type breeding program. The vast majority you see and hear of are using Monty/Fleck x Scandinavian Red x Holstein.

    Is there more Holstein blood in the Ayrshire breed?

    Has anyone every tried Ayrshire, and was it a success?
     
  5. We tried some Swedish red 20 years ago, only one heifer was better than the dams. we decided we were better sticking with fertile British Friesians.
     
    kill and pgtips like this.
  6. More to life

    More to life Member

    Location:
    Somerset
    There the same herd book aren't they
     
  7. rusty

    rusty Member

    Location:
    Buxton Derbyshire
    Used both Norwegian and Swedish red about 8 years ago. Difficult to tell the Swedes apart from the Holsteins . Norwegians smaller and more robust but less litres. Put a Fleck on them to get 3 way cross. Found Fleks to big and heavy for grass based system we are now trying to do. Currently using BF Chad sons, last year used Irish with a bit of VJ Link Jersey on the biggest Holsteins to try and get size down in one hit.
     
  8. dinderleat

    dinderleat Member

    Location:
    Wells
    I would use British Friesian aswell in your situation too much variation in the Scandinavian breeds. Possibly sexultra samson ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  9. Homesy

    Homesy Member

    Cows 'n grass likes this.
  10. James mattinson

    James mattinson New Member

    We cross Ayrshire on to holsteinH good results fertility is better as is fat and protein
     
  11. Sparkymark

    Sparkymark Member

    I have been crossing with both Swedish reds and Norwegian reds for years. I found very little between them. The Swedish seem to do better in the PLI rankings. In fact Gopollen the top Norwegian bull, is out of a Peterslund cow so is half Swedish red anyway.
    Many of the Norwegian bull are polled now if thats something your looking for.
     
  12. kp_n_plghng

    kp_n_plghng Member

    I have found all the Scandinavian reds to be quite disappointing so far. Their tidy enough but they just don't yield enough (total solids) pulling my herd average down. Health traits have been a smidge better but not enough to outweigh lost production. We will see what they mature like but at the moment not using anymore. I did find some of them very small so their production is probably ok for their body weight but at the end of the day if their no less work I'm better off with something a wee bit bigger
     
    Beef farmer likes this.
  13. Llmmm

    Llmmm Member

    There was a trial done in northern ireland some years ago which showed nearly no improvement in lameness.is there any advantage useing the red breeds over british friesian
     
  14. Jamer

    Jamer Member

    Location:
    Glos
    I believe lameness is 95% environmental and gave up breeding "for" legs and feet.
     
    Cuthbert likes this.
  15. Will Blackburn

    Location:
    Cheshire
    We find the Swedish x the best, and judging by the other Scandinavian breeding so do they. Cross breds 1st lactations seem steady but that is repaid with later lactations, plenty doing 12k litres. We are not on a solids contact so Procross is the best option for us, still 0.2% up on fat and protein over b & w.
     
    pappuller likes this.
  16. Llmmm

    Llmmm Member

    What breeds are you useing has anyone used swedish holstein jersey three way cross
     
  17. Will Blackburn

    Location:
    Cheshire
    I've used vh but non milking yet. Going to focus on freisian now after flip flopping between Holstein and BF for the b + w component of Procross. The 3rd cross Holsteins are too big for me and are not the direction I want to go.
     
  18. sidjon

    sidjon Member

    Location:
    EXMOOR
    I used Swedish reds back in 2001 and used them for 3 years, was very disappointed with them, had terrible fertility and were too fine boned for our farm, then switched to Jersey and was a better animal for this farm and system and have purchased one or two in the years since and they haven't made me want to try them again.
     
    jerseycowsman likes this.
  19. som farmer

    som farmer Member

    we have tried aryshires, , and currently are using a ary bull to sweep the hfrs. we are concerned that fat and protein are not + . several pedigree aryshires go through kivells, and the figures don't look that good. very tidy cows though . I expect someone will dispute this, and if they can show good f and p, we will listen!
    nr or sr produce good cows, and are + f/p but would fall in the Friesian range. for a really good +f/p its the good old jersey, but not really like the cows we want to milk ! I think we will end up with fr, and putting some holstien in the mix, and chuck a few others in the mix every now and then !
     
    rusty and Holsteinfriesian90 like this.
  20. Stinker

    Stinker Member

    Been milking SR since 2007 some bulls are better than others but as long as you don't go for the dairy ones they are great cows. Used aryshire and British Frisian but they were useless. Used a fair bit of Monty as well and although I didn't like them as heifers they have lasted well. Feet arent the best on the monties though. Now I have settled on a couple of crosses of SR or NR and then back to Holstein with some going to brown Swiss instead as an experiment.
     

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