Notifying the right authorities about AN fertiliser storage

[Steevo]

25 tonnes seems a strange figure. 24 tonnes being obviously not too dangerous

From now on I shall refer to this as the “Rule of 25”.

Can we store more outdoors than in..? How about over Christmas?

 

[Chickcatcher]

Why don't RT put their short arms in their deep pockets and put a simple webform tool on their website that enables us, their CLIENTS, to submit these notification to the appropriate place in the appropriate format....

This may not quite be what answers your above but there is n NSF Farm Records Book (can be got in a word document so you can fill it in) lots of templates that helped me with my audit, one additional on the fert is that one should update the record at least every 3 months could have been a red mark but managed to see the need before auditor attended t visually inspect Fert, Chem, Grain store.

 

[digger64]

I was pulled up by my Red Tractor inspector for this - not notifying the HSE and local Fire & Rescue Service about >25t of AN fertiliser in a building. I had got a bit behind, having only handled liquid fertiliser for years with no such requirements.

Writing a letter to the FRS is easy enough & I have the details for them. Who else? The HSE guidance just says the "enforcing authority" without any detail on who this might be! Any tips please?

Who actually does this notification, out of interest? I've always notified the FRS in the past but that's it.

We just put a wall of round bales round the heap no issues or questions moved them after . filed the del . note after the visit .

 

[farmerm]

This may not quite be what answers your above but there is n NSF Farm Records Book (can be got in a word document so you can fill it in) lots of templates that helped me with my audit, one additional on the fert is that one should update the record at least every 3 months could have been a red mark but managed to see the need before auditor attended t visually inspect Fert, Chem, Grain store.

I am with the other lot... but there is a similar book and a similar set of rules to follow..

 

[rollestonpark]

I was told to notify etc. Fire service etc.
So did that, they told me they weren't interested.
Job done. Lol

 

[Flat 10]

25 tonnes seems a strange figure. 24 tonnes being obviously not too dangerous

If it was 30 all the farms who have a load at a time would fall outside the scope and that would surely be helpful, oh wait they do it to be awkward....

 

[Wombat]

If it was 30 all the farms who have a load at a time would fall outside the scope and that would surely be helpful, oh wait they do it to be awkward....

Just get some AS in the load as most of it doesn’t have the hazard symbol on it so isn’t counted [emoji106]

 

[Clive]

what a wonderful thread to demonstrate the utterly pointless nature of Red Tractor this is

examples of authorities not wanting to be informed, inspectors offering routes around the requirement and others with assurance seemingly not even knowing they should be doing this plus a genius idea that 24t is safe but 25t isn’t ! and fudging none compliance with statements that promise to do it in the future but never actually do so

pointless protection racket thats costing us all money ... why ?

 

[Hindsight]

From now on I shall refer to this as the “Rule of 25”.

Can we store more outdoors than in..? How about over Christmas?

Depends how many stores in your bubble

 

[farmerste]

We just put a wall of round bales round the heap no issues or questions moved them after . filed the del . note after the visit .

after seeing a spud box full of fresh cut logs next to my stack of fert in the back of the shed my red tractor inspector said i wasnt allowed to store anything flammable next to the fertiliser and should move it asap!!

 

[Spud]

It's nonsense. If we all updated our feet inventory with the HSE & FRS every time it changed they'd soon be inundated - they have better things to do.
What matters is you knowing what is on site and where, at any given time, so if there is a fire, they have accurate information immediately. Some sheet in a file at the station is of no use if the place is on fire!
Having experienced a serious farm fire in 1992, I can confirm that it doesn't matter if there is 2 tons of AN or 26, it gets priority protection. Like a fuel tank or gas tank, they need crucial info bang in the moment of an incident, not on the day of RT inspection.
The FRS are intelligent, practical people, not interested in unnecessary beauracracy. Their priority is human safety, animal safety, environment safety, in that order.

 

[Highland Mule]

what a wonderful thread to demonstrate the utterly pointless nature of Red Tractor this is

examples of authorities not wanting to be informed, inspectors offering routes around the requirement and others with assurance seemingly not even knowing they should be doing this plus a genius idea that 24t is safe but 25t isn’t ! and fudging none compliance with statements that promise to do it in the future but never actually do so

pointless protection racket thats costing us all money ... why ?

Clive, this has nothing to do with RT, other than them wanting to confirm that the farmers they are auditing are complying with the law - which is the bare minimum they should do.

The law is clear: We need to inform HSE, in writing and using a specific form to specific addresses, if we store more than the threshold of certain products. We also need to tell the local Fire Brigade. If people aren't competent to check the rules and follow the fairly easy steps, do you think they should be trusted to hold large quantities of explosive materials?

 

[Clive]

Clive, this has nothing to do with RT, other than them wanting to confirm that the farmers they are auditing are complying with the law - which is the bare minimum they should do.

The law is clear: We need to inform HSE, in writing and using a specific form to specific addresses, if we store more than the threshold of certain products. We also need to tell the local Fire Brigade. If people aren't competent to check the rules and follow the fairly easy steps, do you think they should be trusted to hold large quantities of explosive materials?

this thread is about Red Tractor and their checking

as you point out their input is not needed here as LAW is setting the standards

so what are we paying them for ? and what are they offering our customers?

it is a NFU backed protection racket

 

[Highland Mule]

this thread is about Red Tractor and their checking

as you point out their input is not needed here as like LAW is setting the standards

so what are we paying them for ? and what are they offering our customers?

it is a NFU backed protection racket

Read the OP again, and the thread title. The thread is about an RT check identifying where basic standards hadn't been complied with. You're right that the RT guys shouldn't have to confirm that farmers are complying with the law, but should be checking their stated aim of higher standards than that. Don't you find it a little bit worrying that they have to though? I'd say it's not unreasonable for the public to expect some audit against mandatory as well as higher standards too - writing as a non assured farmer who usually looks for RT on packaging when I'm shopping.

 

[DealeyPlaza1963]

Just as soon as the current UK agricultural ADR exemptions are withdrawn from farmers, the fact that you will then be required to employ the services of a professionally qualified DGSA if you want to continue using AN, will mean all of this 'ridiculous paperwork & rules problem' will disappear.

 

[7610 super q]

The " official " store only contains 24 ton then....

I think owning 2 farms is the answer to all this shite. An official show farm which is tidy, holds a small amount of grain in a steel bin, a chem store that only has 3 chem containers in it, fert store for only 24 ton etc, etc....

Then, round the back, out of sight in the nettles is the " actual " farm.

 

[Cowabunga]

Am I reading that right?

Surely if someone needs to tick box 9, they've already done what they needed by virtue of having ticked box 10.

P.S All urea here so never give this a second thought nowadays.

P.P.S I'm totally bemused by those in power wanting to ban Urea, when it means that all 15,000 farms in the UK will then become potential bomb sites. I'm sure the locals in every village would be flabbergasted if they knew that an explosion of one hundredth the size of Beirut explosion could take place in several places all less than 2 miles from their front door and would much prefer all farms in UK only used non-explosive fertiliser.

Don't worry, as soon as they realise, they will ban ammonium nitrate as well as urea. Should be easy enough to import food into the UK as soon as border controls are sorted.

 

[Cowabunga]

Wasn’t the AN stored in Beirut explosive grade product, and partially degraded, rather than what we all sit on in our fertiliser stores?

I really don’t think it would be helpful for Joe Public to make the mistake of thinking they are the same thing.

They are, in fact, exactly the same product. Hopefully the stuff we have is not partially degraded but the way some farmers keep bags out in the rain for days before putting it into store, if they ever bother, makes me wonder.

 

[Cowabunga]

but it is, basically. It is highly explosive, although it needs a catalyst (but I seem to recall it was a fireworks factory fire that sent the Beirut lot up). One of my family members, who stores a large volume for their arable acreage, was asked by the Met if they could visit his store as part of anti-terrorism training.

Seem to recall when we phoned our local fire service (We rarely have > 25t AN but we did one year) they were very pleased and said most farmers don't bother. )

Why is it not normal for fire service to assume that a farm will have AN in storage plus large quantities of diesel fuel? That would save a whole lot of box filling rollocks.

 

[Highland Mule]

Why is it not normal for fire service to assume that a farm will have AN in storage plus large quantities of diesel fuel? That would save a whole lot of box filling rollocks.

Because many of us don't? Can't think when I've ever bought AN (as opposed to compound fertilisers).