Nutrition Advice for who wants it

[Helpinghand]

Hello Everyone

I am here because i want to help as many of you as possible. I have worked in the feed industry for many years and i am now retired. I am here to help anyone who may want a second opinion on their current rations. Be it Dairy or Beef.
There are too many in the industry that claim to be independent consultants and yet still take advantage of their trusted position to push certain products for the commission and are in it for themselves and not doing what is best for the farmers.

And so i am simply here to help you challenge them, this platform i feel is best suited for me to do so.

if anyone wishes to take up my offer drop me an email at : [email protected]

 

[jimmer]

Here's one for you
If I split my herd , hols frie 620kg AVG
22L group ,preg ,due autumn
32L group fresh up to 150 ish dim
The lows will be on grass and 2kg of 14% hdf
Highs will be out but can be buffered , feeds available are 14%hdf cake , first cut silage 11 me, 18 pr, 30dm ,and

 

[som farmer]

we have found that we have saved £1000's by using an independent nutritionist, completely independent of any feed merchant, had a few reps, try and tempt us, not a chance, been there, done that, and don't want another t'shirt,
Funny thing is, feed merchants don't rate her, I wonder why !
her ration now, 4kg max cake, 14 hdf, and good grass.

 

[Helpinghand]

Here's one for you
If I split my herd , hols frie 620kg AVG
22L group ,preg ,due autumn
32L group fresh up to 150 ish dim
The lows will be on grass and 2kg of 14% hdf
Highs will be out but can be buffered , feeds available are 14%hdf cake , first cut silage 11 me, 18 pr, 30dm ,and

hi jimmer

Looking at the highs, whatever you feed milk yield is replying highly on the protein. personally the 21%CP blend does not need to be fed. The rape meal and the soya meal would be good to feed in the ration, but the protein levels will already be quite high, watch your urea levels.

So assuming the highs are getting 12 to 17 kg of DM from good quality grazing, you would only need to buffer feed around 4-6 kg/head of your silage and no more than 3-4 kg/head of 14%CP HDF cake to achieve 32ltrs. There seems to be good levels of NDF and ration has good energy. I would prefer to see a bit more starch in there to balance it out, but again its depending on the make up of the 14%CP HDF cake. In the buffer feed 0.5kg/head of straw could also help for rumen health. Theres a lot of lush grass, lots of fast protein, going through the cow and a bit of straw would help slow everything down, also will help with butterfat levels.

thats my 2 cents. if i have anymore thoughts over the weekend i will shoot you a message.

 

[Helpinghand]

we have found that we have saved £1000's by using an independent nutritionist, completely independent of any feed merchant, had a few reps, try and tempt us, not a chance, been there, done that, and don't want another t'shirt,
Funny thing is, feed merchants don't rate her, I wonder why !
her ration now, 4kg max cake, 14 hdf, and good grass.

By all means i wasn't painting all with the same brush. But like you said just there, so many are doing very poor rations for self interest. Again not to say all feed reps aren't good at nutrition, i know many that do fantastic rations and really do put the client before self interest.
I am just here to give an non biased opinion to those who want it.

just as an example there was a chap who was feeding a very expensive protein blend, company rep was doing nutrition. I gave them a small opinion to get quoted for a simple 50:50 mix as an alternative and to have the chap doing the nutrition run it through the ration. Not only did they save money on blend cost but they also used less of it.
Simple things like feeding minerals. if all cows are in 1 group and you are feeding minerals through cake and blend, the highs will be likely be over fed and the lows will be underfed. The minerals in most standard cake and blend are made to least cost formulation with big margins. So can simply save money by feeding minerals separately in TMR and know that all cows are getting what they need. Most mineral company's will come and do a mineral analysis of your silage for free.

ive ranted on too much already.

 

[jimmer]

So there are some 50L cows in the fresh group and rethinking it the average weight of them would be closer on 680kgs
I have plenty of that winter blend on farm and need to use it up

 

[jimmer]

I also only have a shear grab , and bucket on the handler

 

[happycows]

I’ve got a few bug bears with the feed industry.
Why can’t they all put a full and clear inclusion with %’s on the feed ticket. Mine does and about the only one I’ve seen.
In my book if your too ashamed to print it then it’s probably not good enough.
Altering feed formulations without notifying customers is another
Fixed formulation for me. Too many in the industry only interested in commission and margins.
If I need advice I’d rather pay for it and get independent advice and let the reps concentrate on the best £££.

 

[som farmer]

ingredient inclusions change all the time, depending on the cost of those ingredients, set by global trade, it would be nice to have % inclusion, but not wholly practical. Plus, they don't really want us to see how much cheap crap they do include ! Anyone remember reading the ingredient inclusion list, when they were forced to declare it ? For those who can't, things like, sawdust, feather meal, dried chicken shite, dried animal offal, meat and bone meal etc etc. They even had large quantities of lead contaminated product, that lead to dumping milk, and compensation.

 

[pappuller]

I’ve got a few bug bears with the feed industry.
Why can’t they all put a full and clear inclusion with %’s on the feed ticket. Mine does and about the only one I’ve seen.
In my book if your too ashamed to print it then it’s probably not good enough.
Altering feed formulations without notifying customers is another
Fixed formulation for me. Too many in the industry only interested in commission and margins.
If I need advice I’d rather pay for it and get independent advice and let the reps concentrate on the best £££.

No one ever moaned about corn being too cheap though ?? Price rules most of the time

 

[happycows]

No one ever moaned about corn being too cheap though ?? Price rules most of the time

If a customer wants cheap then that’s fine as long as they don’t moan when they don’t get the results they want.
Trouble is when you don’t know what you’ve bought how can you work out if it’s value for money?
What invariably happens is if they can get away with it they label it with a fancy name charge £250 a ton whilst sneaking in a good dose of some ingredients that cost £130.

 

[Full of bull(s)]

If a customer wants cheap then that’s fine as long as they don’t moan when they don’t get the results they want.
Trouble is when you don’t know what you’ve bought how can you work out if it’s value for money?
What invariably happens is if they can get away with it they label it with a fancy name charge £250 a ton whilst sneaking in a good dose of some ingredients that cost £130.

The word calf instead of beef in front of pellet is usually worth at least £40/ton in my opinion when you look at tickets

 

[som farmer]

we actually fed cattle grower nuts through the parlour, the ingredient mix, was better than the comparable dairy nut !and £5 tonne cheaper, our nutritionist spotted that, we would have never dreamt of that, although, we have said the replacements do better on a calf ration, than on dairy cake.

 

[Joeblue]

Hello Everyone

I am here because i want to help as many of you as possible. I have worked in the feed industry for many years and i am now retired. I am here to help anyone who may want a second opinion on their current rations. Be it Dairy or Beef.
There are too many in the industry that claim to be independent consultants and yet still take advantage of their trusted position to push certain products for the commission and are in it for themselves and not doing what is best for the farmers.

And so i am simply here to help you challenge them, this platform i feel is best suited for me to do so.

if anyone wishes to take up my offer drop me an email at :

By all means i wasn't painting all with the same brush. But like you said just there, so many are doing very poor rations for self interest. Again not to say all feed reps aren't good at nutrition, i know many that do fantastic rations and really do put the client before self interest.
I am just here to give an non biased opinion to those who want it.

just as an example there was a chap who was feeding a very expensive protein blend, company rep was doing nutrition. I gave them a small opinion to get quoted for a simple 50:50 mix as an alternative and to have the chap doing the nutrition run it through the ration. Not only did they save money on blend cost but they also used less of it.
Simple things like feeding minerals. if all cows are in 1 group and you are feeding minerals through cake and blend, the highs will be likely be over fed and the lows will be underfed. The minerals in most standard cake and blend are made to least cost formulation with big margins. So can simply save money by feeding minerals separately in TMR and know that all cows are getting what they need. Most mineral company's will come and do a mineral analysis of your silage for free.

ive ranted on too much already.

 

[deleted user 837354]

we actually fed cattle grower nuts through the parlour, the ingredient mix, was better than the comparable dairy nut !and £5 tonne cheaper, our nutritionist spotted that, we would have never dreamt of that, although, we have said the replacements do better on a calf ration, than on dairy cake.

How did this nutritionist work out the calf diet was better and cheaper from only the list of ingredients? They do not declare the exact percentages.

That said, most companies will provide a full declaration on request though they are commercially sensitive.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I’ve got a few bug bears with the feed industry.
Why can’t they all put a full and clear inclusion with %’s on the feed ticket. Mine does and about the only one I’ve seen.
In my book if your too ashamed to print it then it’s probably not good enough.
Altering feed formulations without notifying customers is another
Fixed formulation for me. Too many in the industry only interested in commission and margins.
If I need advice I’d rather pay for it and get independent advice and let the reps concentrate on the best £££.

Again, not all companies fudge formulations, and many will provide a full declaration if requested.

The information is after all commercially sensitive.

 

[deleted user 837354]

we have found that we have saved £1000's by using an independent nutritionist, completely independent of any feed merchant, had a few reps, try and tempt us, not a chance, been there, done that, and don't want another t'shirt,
Funny thing is, feed merchants don't rate her, I wonder why !
her ration now, 4kg max cake, 14 hdf, and good grass.

Is this the one telling you festuloliums don't persist more than 12 months?

 

[som farmer]

How did this nutritionist work out the calf diet was better and cheaper from only the list of ingredients? They do not declare the exact percentages.

That said, most companies will provide a full declaration on request though they are commercially sensitive.

full list of ingredients, less crappy ones, used it the y/s ration, cheap, nutritionally correct, ingredients are included as fillers, many take longer for the animal to process, than the time they take to pass through the gut.

 

[som farmer]

Is this the one telling you festuloliums don't persist more than 12 months?

no, that was your old firm,

 

[deleted user 837354]

no, that was your old firm,

It was wrong. Pure and simple.