NVZ's and sewage works
- Thread starter milkloss
- Start date
- Location
- Leicester/England
Yep, that's the one. They are in place to drive improvements at all STWs.
- Location
- Yorks
Why have they drawn the line on the graphs towards the top of the data. It seems to me that the lines should be lower down somelwhere in the middle of all the data points.
So somewhere closer to 3 mg/l
- Location
- East Sussex
I believe they take the highest sample as the most important point, it is not an average. One high sample is enough to put you in an NVZ I think.
Last edited:
PostHarvest
Member
- Location
- Warwick
I remember a meeting probably 30 years ago where the Environment Agency and Severn Trent water were campaigning for farmers to clean up their act. They stated that poor water quality was due 30% to farm effluent and 70% to STP's. The speakers were lucky to leave the meeting with the shirts on their backs. I don't agree that the water treatment companies have cleaned up their acts to any real extent. I can name 3 sites locally where overloaded sewers spew untreated urban sewage onto farmland and into water courses. One landowner tried to campaign to get the STP to clean up their waste but was threatened with legal action over his signs pointing out the problem.
- Location
- Yorks
Just looked at the N concentration level graphs for my catchment area. There does seem to be a trend for them to be reducing over past 10 years or so.
- Location
- Yorks
Any idea what the limit is? I seemed to think it was 50???
wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
2 points to make here.
A few years ago a group of farmers in the Cheshire area maybe near Manchester got their land out of NVZ by proving the pollution was being found at the sewage outfall points into rivers as the OP says.
2nd point is that being in an NVZ is (especially to owner farmers) quite an advantage as grants are available for various bits and bobs especially roofs for concrete yards.
No farmer should need to be told that the ability to spread when nutrients are most needed is a good thing.
A few years ago a group of farmers in the Cheshire area maybe near Manchester got their land out of NVZ by proving the pollution was being found at the sewage outfall points into rivers as the OP says.
2nd point is that being in an NVZ is (especially to owner farmers) quite an advantage as grants are available for various bits and bobs especially roofs for concrete yards.
No farmer should need to be told that the ability to spread when nutrients are most needed is a good thing.
- Location
- East Sussex
I was wondering if your second point is true. We have been in a NVZ since 2008 I think and not in a catchment sensitive farming area ever. Were\are grants available in such a case?
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Wrong on 2nd point, some areas in NVZ's can indeed get grants as you say, others not. In fact I don't think these grants you mention are anything to do with NVZ, a mate of mine had a grant to cover his handling area but is not in an NVZ. Th girl who does my NVZ work has looked into it and there are no such grants available here., she also did his grant application.
The early areas that went into NVZ also had grants to construct slurry storage but that had ended before we went into an NVZ here.
ollie989898
Member
What makes you think a sewage works is handling a lot of nitrates though? What sources have they got?
If phosphate vulnerable zones come in look out, it will be difficult for a lot of people to do much about those.
If phosphate vulnerable zones come in look out, it will be difficult for a lot of people to do much about those.
And as the urine is the liquid fraction wouldnt more pass through the works?Well, my sewage cake has around 9 kg/tonne fresh weight of total N in it, so it must have come from somewhere - our bottoms pehaps? Urine contains urea...
Any one who spreads liquid slurry knows how green the grass grows to the line of spread cant see that human pee is going to be much different and there are 60 million of us
- Location
- East Sussex
Has a word with a helpful lady from Haffren Water today. Seems we have a fair chance of getting the area from NVZ designation.
There's a few stages: the first one is all the FOI requests by them for all relevant samples and a day's work to establish facts. This also includes filling the forms ready for an appeal approx £500. In our very simple case compared to others it would appear £2-3000 thereafter to appeal.
they have established a few areas in the south that could be worth appealing and will be contacting the NFU regional advisors to drum up support. I will wait a while and see who else in my area wants to join in.
I would like to raise @wasted years 2nd point. If it is valid then I'm not sure I should rock the boat or it may stymie someone's hope for a grant of some sort. We were never in a CSF area so were not eligible for grants but having looked briefly at the mid tier garb it would seem concrete and roofing grants are available but need a catchment area Rep onside. I think CSF is now no longer. I haven't been able to test our (ex?)csf rep lately although I have in the past and always got a flat NO.
Opinions please.
There's a few stages: the first one is all the FOI requests by them for all relevant samples and a day's work to establish facts. This also includes filling the forms ready for an appeal approx £500. In our very simple case compared to others it would appear £2-3000 thereafter to appeal.
they have established a few areas in the south that could be worth appealing and will be contacting the NFU regional advisors to drum up support. I will wait a while and see who else in my area wants to join in.
I would like to raise @wasted years 2nd point. If it is valid then I'm not sure I should rock the boat or it may stymie someone's hope for a grant of some sort. We were never in a CSF area so were not eligible for grants but having looked briefly at the mid tier garb it would seem concrete and roofing grants are available but need a catchment area Rep onside. I think CSF is now no longer. I haven't been able to test our (ex?)csf rep lately although I have in the past and always got a flat NO.
Opinions please.
- Location
- Cornwall
Yep, 50ppm from memory.
- Location
- Cornwall
Thought this might interest a few of you.
Thames Water fined £20m for sewage spill
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39352755
Thames Water fined £20m for sewage spill
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39352755
- Location
- Leicester/England
Basically nitrogen is derived from the many forms of protein we ingest.
P Vulnerable Zones, will play a big part, I'm not sure how Brexit will affect its implementation though.
I'm hearing quite a few things from EA and Defra that looks as though they are going to focus even more on the timing of applications of organic N. There are whispers that PAS110 and even sewage sludge may face increased regulatory rigour.
- Location
- Cornwall
From an NVZ point of view it doesn't matter where the N is coming from. EU regs mean if N is over the 50ppm the catchment goes into NVZ rules regardless of the source.
- Location
- East Sussex
Yes, but what niggles me is that I expect 99% of the time, if you read the report, agriculture gets the blame. In many cases that simply isn't the truth, it's pure bullshite
And to top it off, these water companies are making shed loads of money out of the job and, apart from the odd fine which is peanuts to them, get crate Blanche to throw crap in the rivers.
- Location
- Cornwall
Yes, but what niggles me is that I expect 99% of the time, if you read the report, agriculture gets the blame. In many cases that simply isn't the truth, it's pure bullshite
And to top it off, these water companies are making shed loads of money out of the job and, apart from the odd fine which is peanuts to them, get crate Blanche to throw crap in the rivers.
Couldn't agree more!
In our case the EA did everything they could to pin it on the dairy farm next to the sewage works. They couldn't and in the end we proved beyond doubt it was South West Water. Now SWW have spent millions upgrading the sewage works at the top and bottom of the catchment and, Lo and behold, bathing water is clean, river water is clean and everyone's happy...ish!
It wouldn't surprise me if this is being repeated up and down the country! If the EA can blame agriculture, they will. If they can pin it on a single farmer, even better. They will avoid going head to head with the water companies and their lawyers at all costs if they can!