NWF Ewe Rolls

[tepapa]

JV did tell us about one farm that was on all grass wintering/cell grazing, and was feeding soya as a line on the grass every few days, just as they were let into a new cell. I’d be interested to see how much £320/t powder was left stuck to the soil after, as I can’t see they’d eat most of it, or even bother if they had a fresh bit of grass that day.

I did wonder about those NWF soya rolls a while ago, but never tried them before I heard they’d stopped making them. I wonder, did they stop because they can’t make it into a stable roll, or because sales were so low? When the majority of sheep farmers just buy on price per ton, I can’t imagine they’d ever be more than a niche product.

John said he thought they'd stopped making them as they had moved the machine that made the rolls to a different site. He didn't seem impressed they'd stopped making them but I agree farmers probably still buying on price/t rather then efficiency of use.
Slightly annoying that the understanding of ewe nutrition is developing but feed merchants not ready yet to go with the advice but why would they when they stand to sell substantially less feed.

 

[Johngee]

Although we are housing anyway, the thought of feeding just 3 times a week is a little scary tbh

From what he said, when feeding compound there is an overload of starch in the rumen after a feed, which then lowers the pH leading to a depressed appetite for a while. He also said that sheep were less stressed with infrequent feed (and not rushing for soya anyway) leading to easier lambing.

 

[hally]

Especia

JV did tell us about one farm that was on all grass wintering/cell grazing, and was feeding soya as a line on the grass every few days, just as they were let into a new cell. I’d be interested to see how much £320/t powder was left stuck to the soil after, as I can’t see they’d eat most of it, or even bother if they had a fresh bit of grass that day.

I did wonder about those NWF soya rolls a while ago, but never tried them before I heard they’d stopped making them. I wonder, did they stop because they can’t make it into a stable roll, or because sales were so low? When the majority of sheep farmers just buy on price per ton, I can’t imagine they’d ever be more than a niche product.

Especially as ive heard its not very palatable

 

[An ancient git]

That's a crap ration , and the salesperson is a totally numpty ! If you feed top-spec and it works , sales bod should put like against like and justify why their best ration may be better value !! You get what you pay for , and £23/t less is a disaster waiting to happen ... It looks like sh1te fillers .... Nutrition ain't rocket science , if one studies it a bit ..... I've been on Top-spec diets for years and it works out way cheaper overall , with better results ..... But I struggled a bit to find top-spec Rolls (a local outfit can do them ) because most Compounders put crap in to get them to hold together .... It's all rubbish and can be done !......

 

[Anymulewilldo]

From what he said, when feeding compound there is an overload of starch in the rumen after a feed, which then lowers the pH leading to a depressed appetite for a while. He also said that sheep were less stressed with infrequent feed (and not rushing for soya anyway) leading to easier lambing.

I'm curious how infrequent feeds reduce ewe stress. If they need the feed they will get very excited about it. And I thought that the rumen bacteria liked a stable oh rather than spikes and troughs? Thought that sort of thing led to acidosis and such like? Could be totally wrong but very curious!

 

[Benr]

This is there better 19% ration

 

[neilo]

This is there better 19% ration
View attachment 847485

Really? Consider that molasses is generally put in at a maximum of about 5% (iirc), and all the ingredients below that on the list have lower inclusion rates.....

Again, a very high fibre rate would suggest lots of low digestibility ‘fillers’. They seem to have managed to get two lots of ‘soya hulls (rubbish)’ in there twice too?

 

[Moors Lad]

That looks a high fibre figure, what`s the ash percentage?

 

[Bob the beef]

John said he thought they'd stopped making them as they had moved the machine that made the rolls to a different site. He didn't seem impressed they'd stopped making them but I agree farmers probably still buying on price/t rather then efficiency of use.
Slightly annoying that the understanding of ewe nutrition is developing but feed merchants not ready yet to go with the advice but why would they when they stand to sell substantially less feed.

While I have the greatest respect for John Vipond, I've known him for a long time as he used to bring his SAC Edinburgh students to our place every year. After he went self employed as a consultant, he got heavily involved with NWF. He came to monitor farm meeting once, and if he mentioned the Ultrasoy rolls once, he must have rammed it down our throats 100 times. He was instrumental in developing them, but at c£350 tonne they were never going to take off. As @neilo says there are easier, and for some farmers better ways of getting that soya into them.

As for the OP, any product that has wheatfeed as the 4th item at inclusion is nothing more than gutfill!

 

[muleman]

While I have the greatest respect for John Vipond, I've known him for a long time as he used to bring his SAC Edinburgh students to our place every year. After he went self employed as a consultant, he got heavily involved with NWF. He came to monitor farm meeting once, and if he mentioned the Ultrasoy rolls once, he must have rammed it down our throats 100 times. He was instrumental in developing them, but at c£350 tonne they were never going to take off. As @neilo says there are easier, and for some farmers better ways of getting that soya into them.

As for the OP, any product that has wheatfeed as the 4th item at inclusion is nothing more than gutfill!

The price tells you its gutfill! We once had a rep in the yard from one of the top feedfirms trying to sell us some expensive feed. We said we werent paying that for feed....she replied "what price do you want to pay? We can make feed up at whatever price you want to pay" ! Think she meant you get what you pay for!

 

[Pistonbroke]

Our local buying group did a contract with nwf. Once. Not again. Deal was decided on advice from independent nutritionist based on ingredients,cost per mj , protein source etc and it was a no brainier. The "ingredients typically used" bit is bu####it and the cake supplied was total crap

 

[neilo]

Our local buying group did a contract with nwf. Once. Not again. Deal was decided on advice from independent nutritionist based on ingredients,cost per mj , protein source etc and it was a no brainier. The "ingredients typically used" bit is bu####it and the cake supplied was total crap

At the risk of upsetting any members of such groups, isn’t that usually the case?
Feed companies know they are competing on price, with members usually advised by a clipboard warrior, so formulate a paper spec using least cost ingredients. Most of those I’ve ever Seen have been from the big national companies, masters of ‘least cost rationing’, who I never even ask for quotes.

Smaller mills, if they do bother quoting the groups, know that’s what they’re up against and formulate accordingly.

 

[neilo]

While I have the greatest respect for John Vipond, I've known him for a long time as he used to bring his SAC Edinburgh students to our place every year. After he went self employed as a consultant, he got heavily involved with NWF. He came to monitor farm meeting once, and if he mentioned the Ultrasoy rolls once, he must have rammed it down our throats 100 times. He was instrumental in developing them, but at c£350 tonne they were never going to take off. As @neilo says there are easier, and for some farmers better ways of getting that soya into them.

I joked on the way to the meeting that he’d be on a hard sell for soya, so I wasn’t disappointed. ?

I’ve heard him equally enthusiastic about Rissington sheep at one time, and before that, Lifeline buckets.?

 

[Pistonbroke]

At the risk of upsetting any members of such groups, isn’t that usually the case?
Feed companies know they are competing on price, with members usually advised by a clipboard warrior, so formulate a paper spec using least cost ingredients. Most of those I’ve ever Seen have been from the big national companies, masters of ‘least cost rationing’, who I never even ask for quotes.

Smaller mills, if they do bother quoting the groups, know that’s what they’re up against and formulate accordingly.

We don't choose on price,we go on spec and compare the price per unit energy and protein etc on condition that it's fixed formulation for the season. They're the only firm in twenty years that have taken the pish

 

[ShooTa]

my other half went to that meeting - came away very dislusioned with the soya being rammed out as the only way.
and yeah it seemed it was only aimed at the indoor feeders rather than an actual sheep farmer..(wahaay for doing it outdoors)

 

[Nithsdale]

Buy straights. You know exactly what you're feeding, no questionable ingredients or fillers. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper.



I'm also disappointed with so much buzz about Soya, I don't think it's something we should be using

 

[Bury the Trash]

Buy straights. You know exactly what you're feeding, no questionable ingredients or fillers. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper.



I'm also disappointed with so much buzz about Soya, I don't think it's something we should be using

Yes I agree.

I think the time will come presently when the ethics will be questioned with regulations put in place like what happened with fishmeal.
Although it's a bit unfair that an excellent feed source for animals and people cant be just grown in a good way not in ex rainforest or soil degrading sort of way iyswim.

 

[neilo]

Buy straights. You know exactly what you're feeding, no questionable ingredients or fillers. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper.



I'm also disappointed with so much buzz about Soya, I don't think it's something we should be using

Alternatively, only buy from companies that are prepared to give a full ingredients list, so you can make a choice as to whether you are willing to accept any of those fillers. I'd question how much cheaper it is, once you buy in straights (in small loads), cost in your time of peeing about mixing it, don't forget to include the cost of the minerals, and the convenience of a nut/roll that can be fed on the floor. I dare say you can save a small amount, but a tenner a ton doesn't get me excited on the tonnage most sheep farmers will be using.

I get your point, but Soya remains the best source of DUP, and the quantity sheep farmers will be using is miniscule compared to other industries, including the ones making veggie 'meat' replicas.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Alternatively, only buy from companies that are prepared to give a full ingredients list, so you can make a choice as to whether you are willing to accept any of those fillers. I'd question how much cheaper it is, once you buy in straights (in small loads), cost in your time of peeing about mixing it, don't forget to include the cost of the minerals, and the convenience of a nut/roll that can be fed on the floor. I dare say you can save a small amount, but a tenner a ton doesn't get me excited on the tonnage most sheep farmers will be using.

I get your point, but Soya remains the best source of DUP, and the quantity sheep farmers will be using is miniscule compared to other industries, including the ones making veggie 'meat' replicas.

All Mvf feeds have always been like that. More expensive but you get the real mcoy.
Nwf do more expensive ones as well .

Driving a tight deal needs a bit of care and to know exactly what's included ,
no good blaming a supplier .

 

[tepapa]

I

Alternatively, only buy from companies that are prepared to give a full ingredients list, so you can make a choice as to whether you are willing to accept any of those fillers. I'd question how much cheaper it is, once you buy in straights (in small loads), cost in your time of peeing about mixing it, don't forget to include the cost of the minerals, and the convenience of a nut/roll that can be fed on the floor. I dare say you can save a small amount, but a tenner a ton doesn't get me excited on the tonnage most sheep farmers will be using.

I get your point, but Soya remains the best source of DUP, and the quantity sheep farmers will be using is miniscule compared to other industries, including the ones making veggie 'meat' replicas.

Bit more to it than that @neilo. Better for the rumen and the sheep if it's not eating a processed nut that's been ground to powder that will drop rumen pH like a stone compared to a sheep grinding the straight it's self with its molars as it cuds and swallowing it with some nice rumen buffering saliva.
But I agree hardly worth messing about with the quantities sheep eat over lambing which is why it's a shame feed compounders aren't taking the "new" advice seriously. But like I've said they have no reason to as it will reduce sales.