Nz beltex

Discussion in 'Livestock & Forage' started by hendrebc, Aug 11, 2017 at 11:54 AM.

  1. Dyffryn

    Dyffryn Member

    Location:
    Corwen
    The best thing they will do is record and build up a flock of beltex type sheep. That live outside and no concentrates.
     
  2. Very few Beltex recorded, never mind the rest of it.
     
  3. Jackson4

    Jackson4 Member

    Location:
    Wensleydale
    Get rid of the things which arent needed , blown up with a pump heeds or simply big eyebrow ridges in the better ones, breed for lambing ease and against legs outside the body broad skeletal thing that's happened with suffolks and texels, beltex have fine bones in the main though, get as fast growth as any breed off grass, increase birth weight/mature weight probably, dont breed off anything which sounds like the telephone stalker, select for resistance to worms/feet/mastitis etc.. who cares what country you're from any breeder can do it. There will be a market for them.

    I doubt their is any real need to take away the back end mind for the sake of lambing ease, dont really need to be made into a dual purpose animal like the texels and suffolks, let the beltex be the better terminal weaker maternal breed, if they can.
     
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  4. Kiwi Pete

    Kiwi Pete Member

    Location:
    Owaka, New Zealand
    A very handy trait to help squeak up ko%

    Thick skin and thin bone (y)
     
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  5. M-J-G

    M-J-G Member

    Location:
    Sunny Scotland
    The Kiwis appear to have their maternal flock running pretty well for their system, and the male byproduct off this system seems to be marketable.

    I am guessing that some will want to boost incomes from the ewes that they are not breeding replacements from, and using a terminal sire might offer potential to do that.

    But I'm as good as certain that the Beltex will be a terminal only sheep there, and won't make it's way into the commercial ewe flock in NZ, due to the issues with births due to female deformities.

    I'm also unconvinced that our NZ cousins will react well to breeding rams from ewes that require extreme intervention to get lambs on the ground.

    Either way 10 years will tell, a small number of imports for a micro pilot project tells us nothing, other than that there is someone in NZ thst is prepared to take a gamble on something different. It's happened and failed here in the UK with more breeds than I care to think of.
     
    hendrebc likes this.
  6. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    I'd question the success of a small, slow growing (although they claim to have sourced fast growing ones:D:D:D) terminal breed, when used over smaller mature weight ewes that make up a lot of the kiwi maternal lines. They certainly aren't fast growers out of my Highlander hoggs, but make nice hoggets if you can winter them cheap enough. If I were to kill them all at weaning, there wouldn't be much weight of lamb there.....
     
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  7. M-J-G

    M-J-G Member

    Location:
    Sunny Scotland
    I have no reason to doubt that, and from what I've experienced of them, after the lambs with initial burst of growth from a bigger ewe are gone, a lot of rest seem to be lamb's that you are going to be looking at for a while.

    Perhaps the idea will be short lived down under.
     
  8. andybk

    andybk Member

    Location:
    Mendips Somerset
    Most importantly no show ring ,or sales like builth and kelso
     
    hendrebc likes this.
  9. Jackson4

    Jackson4 Member

    Location:
    Wensleydale
    to be fair they will probably be used as part of a terminal composite to add ko%, more bums and backs, how the kiwi sheep industry has changed in recent years, their fat lambs are beginning to look as terminal as ours.
     
    Nithsdale Farmer likes this.
  10. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    I doubt the Beltex would add much in the way of 'backs' to a lot of kiwi sheep, loin muscling wouldn't be a strong point of the breed IMO. I judged some the other week that, although very well fed, had less loin fleshing than most of the fat lambs I sell. I was quite surprised at how plain they were tbh.

    I would think their KO% and hind quarter would be quickly lost with crossing, and functionality of the sheep they're crossed onto quickly dragged down. I have a few Beltex X Charollais yearlings here this year, and the reduction in mobility is quite staggering in one generation. They are shorter, smaller, very much slower growing (even with the benefit of hybrid vigour) and more prone to getting cast and, it seems, bad eyes.
     
    MJT likes this.
  11. Jackson4

    Jackson4 Member

    Location:
    Wensleydale
    Its a funny thing isnt it they used to be all stumpy little things, some seem to be very tight all round everywhere but the arnold schwarzenegger bits, look a bit like a dog if that makes sense. Sheep crufts no digger-t.
     
  12. MJT

    MJT Member

    Hit the nail on the head, trying to make the arses stand out so much has had detrimental effect on overall width of the loin and body . Narrower bodies make the backend stand out a lot more .
     
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  13. liammogs

    liammogs Member

    Same as pure bb cattle they 'lack' loin
     
  14. Jackson4

    Jackson4 Member

    Location:
    Wensleydale
    A lesson in how breeders 'branding' and 'showing' leads were breeds end up.. and yet some people dont understand what the commercial philosophy is all about.. hmm
     
  15. Global ovine

    Global ovine Member

    Location:
    Central Otago NZ

    A bag of salt may be needed with this 2nd hand twaddle. Being the original importer of both Ile de France and Charollais sheep I must correct this comment with the true reasons I introduced these two breeds:

    Ile de France; introduced for 3 lambings in 2 years capability. However the market proved limited for such a radical change of production systems despite a 30% increase on profit. However this breed has proven very robust in the summer/autumn dry hard hill country as a maternal breed or maternal crossing breed over merinos and/or Merino derivatives..Their growth rate is exceptional on dry pastures, but their meat yield is no better than most UK Down breeds and inferior to Texels and Charollais. Flocks now sold to new owners, visit; www.idfnz.co.nz

    Charollais; introduced for faster growth than Texels whilst retaining the KO% and carcass meat yield. Proving successful in all environments being easy lambed therefore suited to nil shepherding hill country at lambing. Visit: www.charollaisnz.co.nz

    Many people blame breeds and ram breeders because human nature tends to look for others to blame. Feeding/health management is very different for most farmers compared to the top 20% for profit in the sheep industry in every country irrespective of the breed they run. Interestingly in NZ, the highest priority in the top 20% group is in sourcing their genetics, because the top genetics can have equal influence on both sides of the cash statement.

    A comment to return my post to the OP; I cannot see one box that a Beltex can tick for the NZ sheep industry. However, I commend anybody trying to do something different and putting their programme through a thorough test.
    Having just returned from a couple of months in Europe and speaking with 2 large processors dominant the UK, they were adamant that the lamb carcass of the future should be as long as possible to maximise loin length (but eye muscles must be larger) and the shoulders and legs reduced in size and weight to suit market requirements. Carcass meat yield measurements are under trial now with payment systems to producers under development. This will certainly cause waves.
     
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  16. hendrebc

    hendrebc Member

    @Global ovine thanks for clearing that up. Your reasons for importing both breeds make a lot of sense and i totally understand your reasons for doing so. Ile de france would have been very interesting had the idea taken off. I apologise for any offence i might have caused by posting above comment.
     
  17. M-J-G

    M-J-G Member

    Location:
    Sunny Scotland
    Lims too.
    I was at a multi breed sale a few years ago, and had a seat on top of a gate just beside where the bulls gathered to go into the ring. What I noticed from this elevated position was the lack of loin on the big arsed cattle. Lim and the couple of BBs that were there, were the poorest. Hereford and BSH were amongst the best.
     
  18. andybk

    andybk Member

    Location:
    Mendips Somerset
    good post GO , and best of luck with highlighted comment , charollais is going in the opposite direction in uk , farmers seem to think that 4 square rams the way to go with big powerful chests .
     
  19. hendrebc

    hendrebc Member

    Agreed @andybk i cant see much difference between charollais and texels here anymore. Maybe just the ones ive seen but they all seemed wide in the shoulders. I follow a couple of nz charollais pages on fb and they look like high end top quality charollias from what i remember about 15 years ago. Good shape on them but narrower fronts. They looked really good to be fair. Winder how long till someone imports some back here? Wouldnt mind one or two for my ewe lambs juging from what ive seen.
     
    andybk likes this.
  20. M-J-G

    M-J-G Member

    Location:
    Sunny Scotland
    Yes, NZ Beltex and Charollais might come back to the UK in 30 years as a new thing. :)
     
    hendrebc likes this.

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