oil spec comparison

ACEngineering

Member
Location
Oxon
Need to change auto tranmission oil in a mercedes and i have a drum of new holland a t f .
Does anyone know of a comparison site to check it NH aft is the same as MB aft

Morris lubricants website oil selector will tell you. Standard ATF is Dexron 2, but there are dexron 3 and atf type G and possibly more so don't think all ATF is the same.
 

Kildare

Member
Location
Kildare, Ireland
yes your correct cowabunga that is the mb spec. Simple thing is to buy the MB oil. Doubt if my can of NH ATF would suit.Oil was changed at 70k klm and now it has 140k klm so a change would not harm.
MB as you say only recommend one change in lifetime, surely a second one is better
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
yes your correct cowabunga that is the mb spec. Simple thing is to buy the MB oil. Doubt if my can of NH ATF would suit.Oil was changed at 70k klm and now it has 140k klm so a change would not harm.
MB as you say only recommend one change in lifetime, surely a second one is better

Yes, I agree. The oil will probably start to degrade out of spec from about 100,000 miles in a normal car, but a bit sooner if in an ML or GL or anything that tows a lot or is driven particularly hard. Normally that would mean the gearbox would probably fail due to degraded lube at about 150,000 miles.

Therefore my choice would be to change the oil at between 60,000 and 70,000 mile intervals. Two changes would therefore take it to 200,000 miles, which is quite a lot.
Your regime is even better if you intend to keep the car running for mega-miles. That's not to say it will though. You still need a bit of luck.

The weak point on the 7-Shitronic is the valve chest and possible sticking solenoids. I haven't followed the history of these transmissions in a good long time now and there is far more experience out there by now than I know about.
 

Kildare

Member
Location
Kildare, Ireland
As you know a oil change will only change about 60% of the oil unless a oil flush is done so thats why i will change it often and keep those solenoids sweet. Thanks for the info
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Filter still internal, or can it be changed/cleaned externally?

My experience is that if the filter is restricted with sh!t, it is already too late and the tranny needs an overhaul. Never seen any benefit from changing an auto transmission filter.
My Ranger auto has a licensed ZF and it does not have a drain plug. To drain, the sump has to be partly removed, which is a bit of a palaver. Once the sump is off, then it is easy to change its filter, but I wouldn't bother otherwise.
My Land Cruiser, which has a four speed Aisin-Warner, has had its oil changed twice, maybe thrice, but never its filter. Just coming up to 185,000 hard miles now and shifts like new. Its probable that a washer in the torque convertor lock-up clutch will fail first, because it is a known issue, but extra oil changes, and certainly filter changes won't prevent that.

From memory I don't think Mercedes recommend filter changes anyway, but I could be wrong.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
As you know a oil change will only change about 60% of the oil unless a oil flush is done so thats why i will change it often and keep those solenoids sweet. Thanks for the info
You are correct. About a third will remain, mostly in the TC and cooling system. Flushing is a waste of time unless the system was grossly contaminated by, for instance, pollution by coolant due to oil cooler failure.
The important point is that the additive package contained in the oil is refreshed now and again with a fresh slug of oil before it degrades too much and starts to facilitate accellerated mechanical wear.

I don't honestly think that changing the oil makes any difference to the potential for sticking solenoids, but I can't be certain about that.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
By the way, if you decide that a flush is desired, then a cheaper or easier method of changing a much higher proportion of the oil from a transmission that does have a drain plug, is to change it twice, or even thrice, with a short run in between. I am not up to doing the maths, but every time the oil is changed, a much higher proportion of fresh oil is left inside. It makes a heck of a difference.

But like I said, I don't think this is necessary and I have never bothered.
 

ACEngineering

Member
Location
Oxon
By the way, if you decide that a flush is desired, then a cheaper or easier method of changing a much higher proportion of the oil from a transmission that does have a drain plug, is to change it twice, or even thrice, with a short run in between. I am not up to doing the maths, but every time the oil is changed, a much higher proportion of fresh oil is left inside. It makes a heck of a difference.

But like I said, I don't think this is necessary and I have never bothered.

Surley the easiest and best way would be to remove the cooler return pipe and run it till the new oil comes though? (over fill the box first though so it does not run dry)
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Surley the easiest and best way would be to remove the cooler return pipe and run it till the new oil comes though? (over fill the box first though so it does not run dry)

If the pipes are easily found and easily disconnected. Might as well do a flush in that case, because basically that is it. Not sure whether oil constantly flows to the oil cooler though. Too many uncertainties for me, but is worth a try if you know what your are doing. I prefer to keep it simple and easy if it does the job.
 

ACEngineering

Member
Location
Oxon
If the pipes are easily found and easily disconnected. Might as well do a flush in that case, because basically that is it. Not sure whether oil constantly flows to the oil cooler though. Too many uncertainties for me, but is worth a try if you know what your are doing. I prefer to keep it simple and easy if it does the job.

No a normal oil change I wouldn't bother/worry about flushing it, but if oil is contaminated or not been changed in ages and smells burnt or looks dirty in colour then I would try and get as much out as possible.

one type of machine I work on often I drain the oil out and change the filter but then I take out a small bung/test port fitting on the top of transmission that's in the cooler circuit and use an air line to blow the oil up the pipe through the cooler and back in to the transmission, then it comes out the drain hole. Okay you still get a bit left in the converter but this machine has 2 fairly long 5/8 cooler pipes and a big cooler so there's quite a lot of extra oil comes out with little extra effort or time involved.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
No a normal oil change I wouldn't bother/worry about flushing it, but if oil is contaminated or not been changed in ages and smells burnt or looks dirty in colour then I would try and get as much out as possible.

one type of machine I work on often I drain the oil out and change the filter but then I take out a small bung/test port fitting on the top of transmission that's in the cooler circuit and use an air line to blow the oil up the pipe through the cooler and back in to the transmission, then it comes out the drain hole. Okay you still get a bit left in the converter but this machine has 2 fairly long 5/8 cooler pipes and a big cooler so there's quite a lot of extra oil comes out with little extra effort or time involved.
An oil change through the cooler pipe with fresh oil sucked in the other pipe is precisely a 'flush'. Ideally nearly all the oil would be evacuated first, before fresh oil was allowed to be pulled or pumped in. Do this for a volume of oil substantially more than the stated dry-fill capacity and it will have been well and truly flushed.


I suspect that your machine is a handler though and not a car. Its a lot of work getting at these pipes and components on a car.

If the oil is dirty or burnt on a car, there may be trouble ahead. Regular maintenance will avoid this, but if the oil is like that regardless, its time to save up some cash or get rid quick.
A flush is certainly needed if the oil is this contaminated, as I did mention in an earlier post, but a normal dump and refil is more than sufficient normal maintenance. Especially as the initial fill for most models of transmissions [car ones] doesn't start degrading out of specification until an average of 100,000 miles.

It used to be that these were 'maintenance free'. They would indeed last for about 150,000 miles before giving any trouble with no oil changes, but times have changed and our expectation of vehicle longevity has changed. Nowadays a far higher proportion of vehicles are taken on to 200,000 miles and up to 300,000 is not uncommon. As a result of these increased expectations, car manufacturers have started to recommend a bit of maintenance for those transmissions that were previously maintenance free. Indeed the occasional oil change is now more routinely advised. Nothing daft, but an oil change at least 20 to 30% sooner than when the long life oil is certain to degrade out of specification.
 

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