OK guys,pull this one apart.

[ajd132]

We have hanslope clay, which does self structure to a degree. Over the last 5 years we have been doing very shallow tillage and zero till. It all seems to be going okay and the soil seems to be improving. Costs are going down and yields going up. We went on holiday for most of September. Not all drilled up but got a decent chunk done all zero till, anything that was moved is a big no no. People in the area have got crops planted into ploughed ground, with smallish tractors but it is now showing up every wheelmark. We drilled with a quad track and heavy drill and the wheel marks are there
But not as bad. The soil has strength. If this season has done anything it has fully confirmed to me we are heading the right way.
I want more money, less work, better ecology, less reliance on inputs, a farm system the public will like, a better roi, less capital tied up, more profit for my cfa customers and as of last week having my first child a farm and world to pass down that is improved and thriving.

 

[rob1]

It takes time for clay soils to adjust and we suffered a yield loss from years three to five this year (7) we had our best ever yields and the soi is in far better condition than when we ploughed, we even drilled some in late November which we never would have dreamed of doing before, much of which has come up looking well but have patches where its rotted, but happy that we have 90/95% emerged rather than nothing

 

[Farma Parma]

Just to further the debate, I believe it is said clay retains organic matter better than other soil types when cultivated, and also suffers less from wind/water erosion and nutrient loss.
So maybe it's the best type of soil to cultivate
Not necessarily advocating this btw, our clay is happiest with grass on

I know our American friends have been Cultivating recently for spring sowing.
is there many who do this in the UK, i most cert havnt tried that approach
I fear it will take longer to dry out than ploughing the land.
Plus ploughing bury's everything, any kinda of winter termed top cultivation only encourages more weeds & volenteers to get away.
Am trying too do less bloody sprays not more.
No BG on this farm neither

 

[Grandad Pig]

You need to look at the bigger picture here, @Yale; if the Earth's crust "needed" flipped inside-out twice a year to "work", as is implied by Ms. Doughty - where/what is the natural mechanism that facilitates this, please?

If we are talking natural, then the apex vegetation in UK is woodland. No need for tillage apart from what wild boar would do to bury seeds etc. Trouble is we can not eat trees?

 

[Simon Chiles]

Letter in this weeks farmers weekly.

View attachment 849979

So,I’d like to know if there is anything credible in this letter as I have no experience of heavy clay.

Is it just old thinking or managing a different awkward soil type.

My gut feeling is dd would build organic matter and structure to improve drainage.

Opinions?

Obviously the lady is entitled to her opinion, however it is nearly all complete twaddle. The only bit she is slightly right about is the oxygen level of the soil being higher in the ploughed land, but this is only true in the top 9 inches. Lower down the no till land would have higher oxygen levels and if you were to measure the total oxygen level throughout the whole soil horizon then the no till would have the highest total oxygen content. The rest was a waste of paper and more fool FW for printing it.

 

[yellow belly]

Well I notill heavy silty clay
ragdale and hanslope soils
with land drains and gravel backfill
mole drain regularly using autosteer and when remoled do not cross the old moles
no till this year after osr before September 21
Yesterday the notill fields were the driest any thing cultivated was wetter

land that has not been cultivated is dryer than cultivated we always found this when we had set aside although this was only 1 year uncultivated
the more years notill the dryer the field
the most important thing on heavy land is not to do anything if it is too wet for the soil
being able to travel and get the drill over the land without blocking does not mean it is dry enough
on my farm on heavy land and all the farms next door it has been too wet since 22 September
free draining land may have been fine but I do not farm any now
PATIANCE is the most important attribute by miles for a heavy land farmer

I will be notill farming for the foreseeable future lowest cost highest margin least risk

 

[yellow belly]

Obviously the lady is entitled to her opinion, however it is nearly all complete twaddle. The only bit she is slightly right about is the oxygen level of the soil being higher in the ploughed land, but this is only true in the top 9 inches. Lower down the no till land would have higher oxygen levels and if you were to measure the total oxygen level throughout the whole soil horizon then the no till would have the highest total oxygen content. The rest was a waste of paper and more fool FW for printing it.

Also if ploughing has more air spaces when it is very wet they are full of water and the worms drown

 

[neilo]

We're on clay soil and I don't know of anyone else locally that is DD'ing cereals. Everyone ploughs, always have and likely always will. I have waterlogged fields but guess what, so does everyone else. I do notice that mine dry up significantly faster than a lot of that which has been ploughed & PH'ed to maul it in this year. Everywhere looks sick though, regardless of how it was put in, unless it was in & established before the rain started.

 

[Farma Parma]

Well I notill heavy silty clay
ragdale and hanslope soils
with land drains and gravel backfill
mole drain regularly using autosteer and when remoled do not cross the old moles
no till this year after osr before September 21
Yesterday the notill fields were the driest any thing cultivated was wetter

land that has not been cultivated is dryer than cultivated we always found this when we had set aside although this was only 1 year uncultivated
the more years notill the dryer the field
the most important thing on heavy land is not to do anything if it is too wet for the soil
being able to travel and get the drill over the land without blocking does not mean it is dry enough
on my farm on heavy land and all the farms next door it has been too wet since 22 September
free draining land may have been fine but I do not farm any now
PATIANCE is the most important attribute by miles for a heavy land farmer

I will be notill farming for the foreseeable future lowest cost highest margin least risk

Patience is a word we all forget but poss where iam its lesser used as the weather will ultimately stop you long before patience does.
Its much easier when you in the likes of Lincs/Cambs & i'll put money your sowing in a normal year a month later than we are able too go
& there temps are between 3/5c all year round more than us.

 

[yellow belly]

Patience is a word we all forget but poss where iam its lesser used as the weather will ultimately stop you long before patience does.
Its much easier when you in the likes of Lincs/Cambs & i'll put money your sowing in a normal year a month later than we are able too go
& there temps are between 3/5c all year round more than us.

I am on much heavier wetter soils and in a wet year like this over a years rain in the last 6 months we have had little chance to drill since 23 september
4 more days and we would have completed autumn drilling
for no till we need to plant before the end of September this is possible in 19 out of 20 years this is the 1 in 20

I hear this is about when the north east plants and when we all planted round here from 1980 to the 2017
black grass is now the reason many delay a month or more
The no-till rotation reduces black grass and enhances soil residual herbicides ,lower nitrogen availability from notill also reduces black grass viability

in all previous years later planted heavy land here at 400 ft never produces a better margin a spring crop especially in wet years