One for Clive

[Farmer Roy]

I saw this thread
Rolling cover crops
Direct drilling
Thought it looked interesting

Almost immediately it turned into an argument on glyphosate rates, rules, regulations, farm assurance etc etc

f**k me, I gave up, couldn't be bothered reading past it all. Last time I looked it was still all about glypho rates . . .
Seems like there is always a problem for every solution

I WAS interested in the rolling of the cover crop . . .

I am SO glad I live where I live . . .

 

[Clive]

I saw this thread
Rolling cover crops
Direct drilling
Thought it looked interesting

Almost immediately it turned into an argument on glyphosate rates, rules, regulations, farm assurance etc etc

fudge me, I gave up, couldn't be bothered reading past it all. Last time I looked it was still all about glypho rates . . .
Seems like there is always a problem for every solution

I WAS interested in the rolling of the cover crop . . .

I am SO glad I live where I live . . .

I feel like moving to where you live !

 

[Farmer Roy]

I feel like moving to where you live !

Land is much better value for money here

 

[Clive]

Land is much better value for money here

True but you have a lot of creatures that can kill you and I’m not keen on them ;-)

 

[Farmer Roy]

Haha - only little ones like spiders & snakes. It's not like we have bears, wolves or lions, that actively hunt you & want to eat you

 

[Farmer Roy]

To go completely off topic ( ie - not discussing whether 1.5 or 3 l/ha of glypho is allowed ), once my dryland cotton is picked ( cotton a small woody shrub, once defoliated, picked & then slashed it leaves near zero groundcover ) I plan to plant a cover of vetch & oats. This will fit in between our normal " long fallow " period of picking cotton in autumn & sowing wheat the following autumn. The main reason for the cover crop is ground cover, carbon capture & soil health / biology. If I can get water there, then I will graze cattle on it to help the biological processes ( as well as a few $ / ha extra ) once the cover is established enough ( assuming it EVER rains again ) through to mid to late spring ( October ? ), dependent of course on growth, rainfall etc.
if I can't sort out water supply ( & I don't plan on carting 1000 litre IBC shuttles for 100's of cattle. Maybe a 26000 l milk tanker would be okay ) then I will either mulch, roll or otherwise terminate the cover prior to it going to seed in spring. It will then be fallowed through till wheat planting in autumn ( or some other winter crop, chickpeas, canola, barley etc )

I may even terminate the cover with a glyphosate application. The rate will be whatever is required to do an effective job !!!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

To go completely off topic ( ie - not discussing whether 1.5 or 3 l/ha of glypho is allowed ), once my dryland cotton is picked ( cotton a small woody shrub, once defoliated, picked & then slashed it leaves near zero groundcover ) I plan to plant a cover of vetch & oats. This will fit in between our normal " long fallow " period of picking cotton in autumn & sowing wheat the following autumn. The main reason for the cover crop is ground cover, carbon capture & soil health / biology. If I can get water there, then I will graze cattle on it to help the biological processes ( as well as a few $ / ha extra ) once the cover is established enough ( assuming it EVER rains again ) through to mid to late spring ( October ? ), dependent of course on growth, rainfall etc.
if I can't sort out water supply ( & I don't plan on carting 1000 litre IBC shuttles for 100's of cattle. Maybe a 26000 l milk tanker would be okay ) then I will either mulch, roll or otherwise terminate the cover prior to it going to seed in spring. It will then be fallowed through till wheat planting in autumn ( or some other winter crop, chickpeas, canola, barley etc )

I may even terminate the cover with a glyphosate application. The rate will be whatever is required to do an effective job !!!

Shame that you are on CTS as a double pass with cambridge/sharp vee ring roller on about 20-40° seems to kill most crops that I have seen it tried it on, kale vetch ryecorn to radish and oats. Been too busy drilling to build a crimper yet, but it is coming.....

Totally agree with your above post too, what a lot of ballbusting over ag chemicals on what started out an interesting thread.. farmers around here are cropping quite successfully without any herbicides and have been for close to 20 years... some closer to 40 years

 

[Farmer Roy]

Shame that you are on CTS as a double pass with cambridge/sharp vee ring roller on about 20-40° seems to kill most crops that I have seen it tried it on, kale vetch ryecorn to radish and oats. Been too busy drilling to build a crimper yet, but it is coming.....

Totally agree with your above post too, what a lot of ballbusting over ag chemicals on what started out an interesting thread.. farmers around here are cropping quite successfully without any herbicides and have been for close to 20 years... some closer to 40 years

Actually, I'm not on a CTF system, I can see the benefits but I am not completely sold. Personally, I'd just like to minimise ALL wheel tracks / passes
I'm probably " pseudo " CTF . I quite often plant at an angle ( my blocks are all square / rectangle in shape ) to avoid header trails, better trash flow through planter, wheel tracks etc etc, much to the annoyance of my harvesting contractors

As to Cambridge or ring rollers - the ONLY reason I know what you're talking about is because I worked in the U.K. for 3 years They don't exist over here, we run presswheels on planters & rollers aren't really a thing

If I get to the stage of having to roll a cover ( cattle are my #1 preferred option ) I might try my Tulip Multidiscs run very shallow with all the weight on the open cage roller on the back, see how that goes

Oh yeah, I agree with you re this thread . . .
f**king whinging moaning Poms

Said with love . . .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Living dangerously as ever Roy

Yeah chop it up, mulch it, roll it, cattle stampede with some kelpies, whatever gets it done Dad simply grew ryecorn and clover and let the cattle and snow do the rest, as I said in the other thread he built 10 inches of topsoil in 50 years or so that way
would be interesting on your soils though they are a different beast to anywhere on Earth

 

[Farmer Roy]

Yeah, cattle are my main choice, there is some really interesting symbiosis between cattle saliva / urine & soil bugs apparently which I'm really keen to exploit, but if I can't do the cattle thing then I'll do whatever is cheap / easy / effective

 

[Kiwi Pete]

True but you have a lot of creatures that can kill you and I’m not keen on them ;-)

+1
Not real keen on any of those suckers.
Aussie wildlife is unusually savage, inject a small insect with enough venom to drop a Bison, no thankyou!

 

[Farmer Roy]

+1
Not real keen on any of those suckers.
Aussie wildlife is unusually savage, inject a small insect with enough venom to drop a Bison, no thankyou!

Yeah, but unless you're silly enough to step on it or sit on it, they generally leave you alone. It's not like spiders or snakes have anything to gain from killing you, apart from self defence . . .

Apparently the most dangerous animal in Australia, the one responsible for most hospital admissions & death, is a . . . . horse !
Closely followed by dogs I'd say

Spiders & snakes are WAY down the list

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yeah, but unless you're silly enough to step on it or sit on it, they generally leave you alone. It's not like spiders or snakes have anything to gain from killing you, apart from self defence . . .

Apparently the most dangerous animal in Australia, the one responsible for most hospital admissions & death, is a . . . . horse !
Closely followed by dogs I'd say

Spiders & snakes are WAY down the list

You can keep my share of the f**king horse population all to yourself

 

[Farmer Roy]

Hey @Kiwi Pete - have you noticed the Southern Hemisphere have taken over this thread as well

Wonder if we'll kill it or rejuvenate it ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Hey @Kiwi Pete - have you noticed the Southern Hemisphere have taken over this thread as well

Wonder if we'll kill it or rejuvenate it ?

It is hypocritical of us to turn on folks for going off topic and then us doing it

The thing is, conventional agriculture has created all these problems for itself, with a certain way of thinking - but then is arrogant enough to assume it will be solved using the same way of thinking.

It won't. Sorry to say that it doesn't matter how advanced your chemistry set is, the model is wrong, badly wrong, farming is stuffed if folk blindly persue a broken model of monoculture and "death to spies"

If the blackgrass issue hasn't proven even plants can out-think and out-evolve the monoculture farmer then.....

I will leave you to ponder that one, while I calibrate this drill

 

[rob1]

It is hypocritical of us to turn on folks for going off topic and then us doing it

The thing is, conventional agriculture has created all these problems for itself, with a certain way of thinking - but then is arrogant enough to assume it will be solved using the same way of thinking.

It won't. Sorry to say that it doesn't matter how advanced your chemistry set is, the model is wrong, badly wrong, farming is stuffed if folk blindly persue a broken model of monoculture and "death to spies"

If the blackgrass issue hasn't proven even plants can out-think and out-evolve the monoculture farmer then.....

I will leave you to ponder that one, while I calibrate this drill

The problem here has been the advice farmers have been given is get bigger and bigger more and more winter wheat,cover more acres by min till and drive 25 miles to do it.Now the cows have come home to roost a whole new raft of advice has come to the rescue, or not,the aim has been to keep raw materials cheap so processors can control costs and keep food prices cheap for the public. Perhaps we need to look at how to get more from the market place not just the drive to produce more and more, but of course that means learning new skills like dealing with the public and even cooperating with each other,not something uk farmers have a good record of doing

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The problem here has been the advice farmers have been given is get bigger and bigger more and more winter wheat,cover more acres by min till and drive 25 miles to do it.Now the cows have come home to roost a whole new raft of advice has come to the rescue, or not,the aim has been to keep raw materials cheap so processors can control costs and keep food prices cheap for the public. Perhaps we need to look at how to get more from the market place not just the drive to produce more and more, but of course that means learning new skills like dealing with the public and even coperating with each other,not something uk farmers have a good record of doing

That is likely very close to the truth, Rob.

But production methods as well, (not just in the UK either for the record) seems to revolve almost entirely on reliance on convenient methods, which is certainly the precursor to the oversupply issue.

Imagine if crops just had a habit of failing, or being unharvestable, or only fit for animal consumption; then there would be money made, boom and bust if you like, but the averages would be much better around the world.
It is just too safe, too guaranteed to yield well, a victim really.
We are rapidly heading over the abyss, in terms of being reliant on the unsustainable, and pushing the problem ahead of ourselves with soils, chemicals, production levels... the list could go on but

We need, and absolutely need, much more experimentation into alternative ways of growing this food, and capturing the value of what is produced, instead of relying on the world to stay just as it is.

It won't be staying still, that was what I meant above, most farmers heads (not all) are stuck in 1966, waiting for the next big advance in chemical or implement.

All the answers are in front of us already

 

[rob1]

That is likely very close to the truth, Rob.

But production methods as well, (not just in the UK either for the record) seems to revolve almost entirely on reliance on convenient methods, which is certainly the precursor to the oversupply issue.

Imagine if crops just had a habit of failing, or being unharvestable, or only fit for animal consumption; then there would be money made, boom and bust if you like, but the averages would be much better around the world.
It is just too safe, too guaranteed to yield well, a victim really.
We are rapidly heading over the abyss, in terms of being reliant on the unsustainable, and pushing the problem ahead of ourselves with soils, chemicals, production levels... the list could go on but

We need, and absolutely need, much more experimentation into alternative ways of growing this food, and capturing the value of what is produced, instead of relying on the world to stay just as it is.

It won't be staying still, that was what I meant above, most farmers heads (not all) are stuck in 1966, waiting for the next big advance in chemical or implement.

All the answers are in front of us already

All my grass goes to the horse market and so does all the straw which makes more profit than the grain which goes to show what a mad world we live in, the only thing is I have to deal with mad horse women and produce what they want BUT I then can charge a decent price for a 1st class service, no FA crap,no waiting 60 days for the cash,I know every farmer cant do that but most could get a lot closer to the final sale which is where the profit lies. If I wasnt only a few years from retiring I would be selling my grain that way by investing in abagging set up to mix chicken corn and bird food,my wife bought a 100grm block thing for her chicken last year that I worked out was several thousand pounds a tonne wouldnt need many tonnes at that rate to make a nice living

 

[Kiwi Pete]

All my grass goes to the horse market and so does all the straw which makes more profit than the grain which goes to show what a mad world we live in, the only thing is I have to deal with mad horse women and produce what they want BUT I then can charge a decent price for a 1st class service, no FA crap,no waiting 60 days for the cash,I know every farmer cant do that but most could get a lot closer to the final sale which is where the profit lies. If I wasnt only a few years from retiring I would be selling my grain that way by investing in abagging set up to mix chicken corn and bird food,my wife bought a 100grm block thing for her chicken last year that I worked out was several thousand pounds a tonne wouldnt need many tonnes at that rate to make a nice living

I shouldn't laugh but the horse fraternity are amazingly good at spending, aren't they?
Just had 22 horses stay here for a night and when I said we are looking at Organic certification in the future (jury is still out on that) they asked what I charge and was it ok that their horse was wormed back in December or whatever?
I said mmmmm OK, but it will be $30... ended up making close to a grand as I supplied a bale of crappy toppings "organic hay" - and have since had several enquiries if I can design them custom seed mixes and oversow their pastures

It puts food production into perspective as to earning capability, thats for certain!

The big thing I notice about UK Ag as a generalisation is a big "us and them" when it comes to the supply chain, here of course most all meat is processed by farmer owned Coops and same with dairy, I have shares in 4 meat processors and most of the supermarkets as well, but I don't see that in the UK so much, there is a big wall up that really needs to come down IMO every man for himself doesn't really make for a strong team and the producer is the one sector missing out the most , if you can't beat them, .... ....

 

[martian]

All jolly interesting and way off topic...meanwhile, if I can tempt you down from the barricades comrades, can I ask how grazing covers kills them enough to not need any other treatment before spring drilling?