Open lies about dairy farming

jerseycowsman

Member
Location
cornwall
Ok guys, I want to make sure my figures are generally right before I do the NFUs job and write to the economist and grocer magazines and the BBC about all this obvious bollox that is being spouted!
Having done my carbon footprint and realising that mine and the UK average were quite low. I looked for plant milk averages and found them to be similar to UK milk! I then found this gem that was in the grocer and based on supposed world average figures compiled by 2 VEGAN scientists at Oxford. The water Use one especially Is horrendously wrong. It’s no wonder the bbc et al are so full of bulls**t if these are the figures they are using. Can anyone point to any holes in my research, to stop me making a fool of myself?!
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Turnip

Member
Only question I would have is are the figures in the picture for a litre of milk bought in a supermarket and are you selling a litre of milk to the end consumer at the farm gate? If you are then that might explain the difference. CIP procedures for instance in dairy processing are pretty high water users.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
I remember reading that they include rainfall in the water use figures 🤷
isn't water usage in the west of this country a good thing ?
they are always pushing measures on us for flood prevention so if cattle "use" all this water then shouldn't we be charging so much per cow for our services to flood prevention ?
we could spin this round to make it look like if it weren't for cows most riverside towns and villages would be swept away in the floods
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
I remember reading that they include rainfall in the water use figures 🤷
Definitely a problem in these figures. JP counted rainfall on pasture against the meat and dairy produced there. Is that reasonable?

I'm not sure if he did the same for arable crops? If he did then, surely, oat milk would use far more than he claims?

Also, for nuts he counted the carbon sequestered into the trees but he excluded carbon sequestration in pastures from his assessment of meat and dairy.

It's a biased assessment.

The fact he is s campaigning vegan and did not declare the fact in the conflicts of interest declaration in his paper may be relevant.
 

Bongodog

Member
I would guess your water usage as approx 1 litre for every litre of milk sent off the farm, the rest is only borrowed and goes back through the soil for re use. Meanwhile California is losing billions of litres through evaporation trying to grow almonds in near desert conditions
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
You need water/rain to grow grass.
Yes but it's isn't kept, it continues to be part of the local water cycle. Compare that with the use of water transferred huge distances in California to irrigate almond trees in a desperately dry landscape.

The impacts are orders of magnitude apart.
you need to be stocked below a certain point to be sequestrating anything meaningful.
Really? Some producers are demonstrating significant sequestration with high effective stocking rates using AMP grazing principles.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
I would guess your water usage as approx 1 litre for every litre of milk sent off the farm, the rest is only borrowed and goes back through the soil for re use. Meanwhile California is losing billions of litres through evaporation trying to grow almonds in near desert conditions
It IS fair to count the parlour wash water which becomes dirty water after use......
 

Nearly

Member
Location
North of York
It IS fair to count the parlour wash water which becomes dirty water after use......
But that goes back onto the land and filters back into the local groundwater or other part of the cycle. Admittedly it is more likely to be drinking water quality than any other part of the system.

So now the self rightous environmentalists fail to understand the carbon cycle, the nitrogen cycle AND the water cycle.
I bet they use tap water to wash their eclectic car and driveway every Sunday too.
There is no hope.
 

egbert

Member
Ok guys, I want to make sure my figures are generally right before I do the NFUs job and write to the economist and grocer magazines and the BBC about all this obvious bollox that is being spouted!
Having done my carbon footprint and realising that mine and the UK average were quite low. I looked for plant milk averages and found them to be similar to UK milk! I then found this gem that was in the grocer and based on supposed world average figures compiled by 2 VEGAN scientists at Oxford. The water Use one especially Is horrendously wrong. It’s no wonder the bbc et al are so full of bullsh*t if these are the figures they are using. Can anyone point to any holes in my research, to stop me making a fool of myself?!
View attachment 991772View attachment 991771
You know I'm right with you...but...

how can your water use be less than a litre per litre?
A dry South Devon cow tied in a shippon drinks 12-15 gallons a day on a dry diet, if my youthful recollections are correct.
(and i'm assured by a more acute observer that she drinks 2 quarts to a slurp..... there were long dark winter days to think about such things in days of old)
 

egbert

Member
What does it matter about water there’s the same amount of water on this planet no matter where it is .frozen or in the sea/river or in a cows belly or in a cloud or I’m I talking sh1te.
it becomes a lot more relevant when the water is being pumped from ancient aquifers - effectively fossil water.
Or has lately been locked up in a 2 mile thick ice sheet for tens of thousands of years.
 
Yes but it's isn't kept, it continues to be part of the local water cycle. Compare that with the use of water transferred huge distances in California to irrigate almond trees in a desperately dry landscape.

The impacts are orders of magnitude apart.

Really? Some producers are demonstrating significant sequestration with high effective stocking rates using AMP grazing principles.
From John Roche off of New Zealand. He is a passionate proponent of grazing and has no axe to grid so tend to believe him
 

Dragon

Member
Location
Cornwall
Ok guys, I want to make sure my figures are generally right before I do the NFUs job and write to the economist and grocer magazines and the BBC about all this obvious bollox that is being spouted!
Having done my carbon footprint and realising that mine and the UK average were quite low. I looked for plant milk averages and found them to be similar to UK milk! I then found this gem that was in the grocer and based on supposed world average figures compiled by 2 VEGAN scientists at Oxford. The water Use one especially Is horrendously wrong. It’s no wonder the bbc et al are so full of bullsh*t if these are the figures they are using. Can anyone point to any holes in my research, to stop me making a fool of myself?!
View attachment 991772View attachment 991771
I think there would be a discrepancy in you figure because your milk has yet to be processed and delivered to the shop, where as the other figures are based would be at the point of sale.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
What does it matter about water there’s the same amount of water on this planet no matter where it is .frozen or in the sea/river or in a cows belly or in a cloud or I’m I talking sh1te.
You don't see a problem then in Lake Mead, the reservoir behind the Hoover Dam, being at an all time low of about 23% capacity, when a significant proportion of the water used is transported hundreds of miles by aquaduct to irrigate almond trees in an arid landscape.......
 
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onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Ok guys, I want to make sure my figures are generally right before I do the NFUs job and write to the economist and grocer magazines and the BBC about all this obvious bollox that is being spouted!
Having done my carbon footprint and realising that mine and the UK average were quite low. I looked for plant milk averages and found them to be similar to UK milk! I then found this gem that was in the grocer and based on supposed world average figures compiled by 2 VEGAN scientists at Oxford. The water Use one especially Is horrendously wrong. It’s no wonder the bbc et al are so full of bullsh*t if these are the figures they are using. Can anyone point to any holes in my research, to stop me making a fool of myself?!
View attachment 991772View attachment 991771
Something that is massively overlooked is the fact that livestock production systems (especially in a uk context) are part of an ecosystem cycle.
Water, carbon, methane.
@jerseycowsman your cows and your products are part of that cycle!
 

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