Opinion Harvester Survey - Red Tractor

[ploughman1963]

they are one time use links, so that will not work, if you are a member you will have had one, if you haven't seen it check your spam folder.

I had two - I thought @Timbo might think of something fresh to say rather than repeat my rant

 

[ploughman1963]

Yes it's really a Organic inspection and they just Sort the Red Tractor after

No access to market without it
OK I agree with you lot it needs sorting

We have two inspections at the organic dairy unit next week- organic and RT - they were going to be separate with two individual assessors until we kicked up a stink. Bad enough paying for two inspections without wasting our time to meet two separate assessors!!! Complete waste of time - the assessor will fill in both as he goes - 90% duplication!!

 

[Treg]

I suppose it's justifiable if the RT audit asks a whole load more questions. Makes you wonder why the organic inspection doesn't have their own assurance add-on. Hmmm, me thinks someone wants RT to have market dominance. No competition. The only assurance scheme.

Presumably a lot of things are covered by the organic inspection. Spray and fert records (or non use of), medical records, etc.

Pretty much everything is covered by Organic inspection other than worming the cat and keeping a feed sample for 12 weeks.
Have had to have health plan signed off by vet for years on Organic, think the last couple of years Red Tractor has wanted same thing.

 

[Timbo]

We have two inspections at the organic dairy unit next week- organic and RT - they were going to be separate with two individual assessors until we kicked up a stink. Bad enough paying for two inspections without wasting our time to meet two separate assessors!!! Complete waste of time - the assessor will fill in both as he goes - 90% duplication!!

Should bloody think so too

 

[Grass And Grain]

We have two inspections at the organic dairy unit next week- organic and RT - they were going to be separate with two individual assessors until we kicked up a stink. Bad enough paying for two inspections without wasting our time to meet two separate assessors!!! Complete waste of time - the assessor will fill in both as he goes - 90% duplication!!

That's just inefficient and causing unecessary cost. Wonder why heads haven't been banged together. Organic inspection ought to have optional £20 assurance add-on, then just ask the 10% of extra questions. Your purchaser is obviously happy with the organic inspection body, and it's the same person who does the RT, so why not add it on for a fraction of the cost.

Imagine Organic will be the big marketing wording used on the product. Should processors/supermarkets be made to accept different schemes, then just use a generic assured logo?

It's really unfair we have to all use RT. I know we can choose different inspection bodies, but not the assurance scheme itself.

It's not just RT which is accepted by supermarkets, as they purchase Global Gap imports, BRC, etc.although I understand how it's easiest to stick with one logo on the packaging.

I believe RT have agreements where products assured under a different scheme can carry the RT logo. e.g. SQC assured grain can carry the RT logo, so this should be possible with all the sectors. Maybe this helps them stay compliant of competition laws, but maybe also they don't advertise the fact produce assured under different schemes can carry the RT logo.

 

[Adeptandy]

Thought I was going to miss out with no email……just found it in Junk mail. About sums RT up

Just found mine in there as well

 

[Farma Parma]

I fully respect the reasoning of only having one inspection, supermarkets will want some form of assurance, etc. - positive reasons to have RT.

However, I think the above reasons to retain RT need to be balanced against some facts.

Danish Crown, approved UK supermarket suppliers, have an assurance scheme, it's only reason of existence is for the UK market. It has a 36 month inspection and membership fee. Yes, 36 months. It's also got way less standards than RT. So, why are we pandering to RT, why are we happy to accept extra costs compared to Danish Crown. The supermarkets are obviously happy with DC.

One thing to note, which may be relevant, is DC is a farmer owner cooperative. Here's a quote from their website...

"At Danish Crown, we continually strive to improve what we do – from farm to fork – so people around the world can enjoy tasty meals, with full confidence. We have roots back to 1887 and the Danish cooperative movement, so responsibility towards society, employees and our owners, the farmers, is part of our DNA."

Similar with New Zealand lamb. Only about 30% of producers are assured, yet it sits on the shelf alongside our British lamb.

We need to consider all these things before we decide what to do, and what we want from assurance in the UK. We need to make it work in favour of UK farmers, not against us.

I'm not saying I have the answers, but rather I'm pointing out all the things to consider.



This is the alternative to palling up to RT. We could get farmers together and say we're all coming out unless you do x,y, z exactly as we say. Or just all leave anyway.

History tells me the processors want a mission creep of extra standards, but pay no more for it.

We saw this with grain recently. AIC said they saw no demand for UK Gatekeeper style assured grain, yet their members/mills readily purchase imports with iffy gatekeeper assurance. Fact is, the mills are getting RT grain from the UK suppliers, and they're not having to pay a penny more for it than for imports which they accept with zero farm audited assurance.



At the moment, if we consider the things I've posted above, UK farmers are being asked to supply A grade produce, when our customers are accepting B grade from overseas.

It looks like we're being taken for mugs, so we can't be happy with that.

Seemingly, we must work together to change this, but we've to decide what change we want.

For equality, either imports must meet Grade A specification, or we say we're only prepared to supply B Grade (same as imports).

Supplying A Grade, for B grade price doesn't sit right.

NFU seem to have been happy with this. I'm not happy.

Can we ever achieve a price premium? We haven't yet, and it's been going on for 20 years.

I'd be happy supplying RT grain if there was a genuine premium, or if imports had to meet our RT rules. At the moment we've got neither.

iam sure it was mumbled £2-3t premium for being Assured
Like weve ever seen any of that
But even if we got £1/t back it would cover the hassle of it all.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Farm assurance came about as a result of the Food Safety Act 1990.
The act provides that there can be a defence of due diligence in the event of proceedings for an offence under the act.
Due diligence means taking all reasonable steps and all reasonable precautions to prevent the commissioning of the offence.
The supermarket cartel devised farm assurance as a means of getting someone else to do the leg work and therefore bear the expense of the process aided and abetted by the NFU who left their members to carry the expense while presumably the NFU creamed off some of the profits as a conowner of the protection racket they helped create.
If supermarkets have to do their own work to provide a due diligence defence so be it.
Producers will have to stand up to the buyer bullies at some stage or become the modern equivalent of serfs. The difference between modern day serfs and their predecessors is that those in the past didn’t bear any of the financial risk in making their masters rich unlike today.

I think it should also be noted [again] that as far as I'm aware, there have been little/ no food safety issues where the farmer was at fault.
BSE and horse meat were the fault of others in the chain and where there is a problem with produce, it is usually imported.
There is nothing within the assurance system that makes food safer.

 

[Treg]

I think it should also be noted [again] that as far as I'm aware, there have been little/ no food safety issues where the farmer was at fault.
BSE and horse meat were the fault of others in the chain and where there is a problem with produce, it is usually imported.
There is nothing within the assurance system that makes food safer.

This^^^
The biggest food scandals have been on the other side of the farm gate, that needs to be constantly reminded to the retailers/ processors.

 

[ploughman1963]

they are one time use links, so that will not work, if you are a member you will have had one, if you haven't seen it check your spam folder.

I think that, assuming @Timbo completed the questionnaire via the link, I can still complete the questionnaire via the same link as I am on a different computer. If anyone wants to complete the survey, send me an email and I will forward the link

 

[Barleymow]

I've not even got anything in my junk mail folder

 

[Drillman]

If red tractor want a future all they have to do is very simple.
provide the farmer with a premium that more than covers the costs associated with membership. They have had 20 years to sort this out.

Our beef membership was recently up for renewal. I checked with our sales outlets who confirmed there was no premium or benefit to been a member so we binned it. Only one loser there and it’s not us as we’re a good chunk better off as a result.

Edit- For the record our saving in expenditure will NOT be at the expense of animal care or husbandry. It will be by reducing the amount of time wasted attending to pointless hopper jumping, gold plating as well as the cost of membership fees.

 

[curlietailz]

Trimble. They come into this conversation.

You can buy a Trimble GPS box for say £2k, and it lets you have 30cm accuracy.

The hardware will do RTK 2cm accuracy, but you've to pay Trimble another £2k to get that feature unlocked.

So, can we use a similar system for our assurance.

OK Mr processor, you can have RT grain. Fine. When you buy RT grain from me, you've got the pretty poor assurance because all RT do is an annual audit.

If you want me to warrant the grain has not only passed the RT annual inspection, but you also want a signed declaration those standard have also been upheld for the last 200 days since the inspection, I'll sign the paper, but only for £5/t. Your choice. Sort of like the Trimble unlock code.

Problem is, how do you stop the processors all wanting the unlock code, but they won't pay a premium for it.

Does this suggest assurance is a never ending, mission creeping snowball, which is only ever going to get bigger and have ever increasing standards, with no price premium? Where will it stop? It's been continuously getting more onerous. Why would it ever stop getting more and more onerous. I can't see the retailers saying they want to tear out pages from the rule book.

If so, that suggests leading everyone out of it, but we don't want to lose market share to the overseas competitors.

Hmmm. More thinking required.

It will stop when every farmer decides solar farms, caravans, buttercups and legume fallow is better than producing food

they will eventually do themselves out of a job in my opinion

 

[Grass And Grain]

It will stop when every farmer decides solar farms, caravans, buttercups and legume fallow is better than producing food

they will eventually do themselves out of a job in my opinion

I've got some nice legume fallow, and no rape so might just sell all my grain farm to farm next year.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

I've got some nice legume fallow, and no rape so might just sell all my grain farm to farm next year.

Are you allowed to mow and bale Legume fallow ?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Are you allowed to mow and bale Legume fallow ?

No, not until 15th of August in year 2, and by then imagine it will be well past its best. Nice amount of N and OM being produced though.

Can harvest AB1 in its first year, which is a similar legume mix, then year 2 onwards can only cut 50% of the area, and can then graze from (think) 1st of Sept.

GS4 might be better if wanting to utilise forage, but then think it must be shut up for a period in early summer.

I went for mid tier due to health reasons, but now feeling quite a bit better, maybe because I've less peak workloads!