Opportunity options on family farm

[Beef farmer]

Depends what "from scratch" is - a couple of robots is a similar cost to a mid sized combine. Suckler cow to dairy heifer means livestock capital is broadly equal.
I could get closer to world market prices with milk delivered to the consumer than I could with beef.
Simply 24ppl would struggle here 30ppl would fly !!
Today beef is looking better than it has for a while where as milk looks poorer.

Milk looks poorer?

 

[pappuller]

Depends what "from scratch" is - a couple of robots is a similar cost to a mid sized combine. Suckler cow to dairy heifer means livestock capital is broadly equal.
I could get closer to world market prices with milk delivered to the consumer than I could with beef.
Simply 24ppl would struggle here 30ppl would fly !!
Today beef is looking better than it has for a while where as milk looks poorer.

would have thought milk was looking quite positive for the next 6-12 mnths but then we can never see round the next bend.

 

[Clay52]

Milk looks poorer?

While things are better currently the world market is still pretty flimsy.

 

[jockthethistle]

It's going to be a hard brexit October At that point all bets are off. Talks with EU suspended . Tis going to be exciting .. Butter just won't stop going up .. Statins. why worry about butter consumption when we have statins .. Better get some in . jtt

 

[fgc325j]

You could keep 4 suckers for the feed of your £1100 margin cow with a fraction of the fixed costs.

But you are ignoring the biggest cost involved in any sort of farming - the land- could you keep those 4 sucklers
on the same amount of land that you could keep 1 milker ?????? - we can all guess the answer to that one.
Add on the fact that to keep the sucklers through the winter you will probably need the same type of cubicles
,silage pit and slurry facilities as you would for dairying, plus do silage contractors harvest the grass at half
price for beef farmers compared to what they charge dairy farmers ?????.
Beef/Sheep is only viable when
land is cheap, and building/ feed costs are half compared to other grazing enterprises.

 

[Bossfarmer]

But you are ignoring the biggest cost involved in any sort of farming - the land- could you keep those 4 sucklers
on the same amount of land that you could keep 1 milker ?????? - we can all guess the answer to that one.
Add on the fact that to keep the sucklers through the winter you will probably need the same type of cubicles
,silage pit and slurry facilities as you would for dairying, plus do silage contractors harvest the grass at half
price for beef farmers compared to what they charge dairy farmers ?????.
Beef/Sheep is only viable when
land is cheap, and building/ feed costs are half compared to other grazing enterprises.

in otherwords dairy is the only thing that will stack up if subs go

 

[beefandsleep]

Good points but you don't feed beef cows like dairy cows, they will live through the winter on straw and poor silage.
For every cow your milking you are grazing a follower and rearing a calf. Selling beef calves off the cow at weaning means you are only housing the cow in winter, fair point on not being able to graze 4 beef cows to the dairy cow but you won't be shutting up as much ground for silage and won't be growing maize etc so your not going to be far off. Don't forget that heavily stocked dairy farms can only really carry the numbers of cows they do because acres are bought in on feed lorries.
Regarding land cost, who do you think is bidding rents up to crazy levels? Wouldn't be dairy farmers would it?

 

[beefandsleep]

in otherwords dairy is the only thing that will stack up if subs go

I don't think it will be dairy in its present high input, highly indebted form.

 

[supercow]

I don't think it will be dairy in its present high input, highly indebted form.

Your arguement is a struggle. There's a lot of beef guys setting up Dairys in time for 2020 when we don't know what's going to happen with subs, anything above 26 pence I think most dairys will survive without subs. Beef guys rely of subs am I not right in saying?

 

[supercow]

Are you a pedigree herd by any chance? Is which case I agree, if you add value to ur stock by all means you have got a fair arguement.

 

[Kingofgrass]

I don't think it will be dairy in its present high input, highly indebted form.

Indebted form speak for your self not others yeah some dairy farms are in massive debts but not all ours is cash positive we own everything and only have something on finance (2years 0%)for tax purposes,as regards to subs I know I can survive with out them,and dairy will out do anything profit/acre if you know what ur doing

 

[beefandsleep]

That's great and I'm pleased for you but industry stats paint a bleaker picture and if all bank lending was withdrawn tomorrow I would bet the dairy industry would suffer more than any other. So who's been milking who?

 

[Penmoel]

Good points but you don't feed beef cows like dairy cows, they will live through the winter on straw and poor silage.
For every cow your milking you are grazing a follower and rearing a calf. Selling beef calves off the cow at weaning means you are only housing the cow in winter, fair point on not being able to graze 4 beef cows to the dairy cow but you won't be shutting up as much ground for silage and won't be growing maize etc so your not going to be far off. Don't forget that heavily stocked dairy farms can only really carry the numbers of cows they do because acres are bought in on feed lorries.
Regarding land cost, who do you think is bidding rents up to crazy levels? Wouldn't be dairy farmers would it?

A 500kg grazing dairy cow having a tonne of cake, would eat a lot less silage than a 700kg suckler.
Over here straw is too expensive to feed to sucklers. As is concentrates.
We cant grow maize here.
At 30% replacement we wont have a calf and a yearling behind every dairy cow.
50% of the calves born sold by 4 weeks of age at say £150 or more from a dairy cow.
On land cost yes ,because grass is the cheapest feed for any animal.

A suckler cow is I am afraid blown out of the water by a dairy cow, especially when they both have the same need for housing.

 

[Bossfarmer]

A 500kg grazing dairy cow having a tonne of cake, would eat a lot less silage than a 700kg suckler.
Over here straw is too expensive to feed to sucklers. As is concentrates.
We cant grow maize here.
At 30% replacement we wont have a calf and a yearling behind every dairy cow.
50% of the calves born sold by 4 weeks of age at say £150 or more from a dairy cow.
On land cost yes ,because grass is the cheapest feed for any animal.

A suckler cow is I am afraid blown out of the water by a dairy cow, especially when they both have the same need for housing.

These are my findings too as long as milk price average stays at least 22ppl in the long term which it will surely have to?

 

[Kingofgrass]

That's great and I'm pleased for you but industry stats paint a bleaker picture and if all bank lending was withdrawn tomorrow I would bet the dairy industry would suffer more than any other. So who's been milking who?

Let them the milk price would boom

 

[beefandsleep]

The suckler cow thing is a bit of a side track as I was responding to bosses post, on good land I agree unless as a complementary low labour enterprise alongside an arable one. What I can't get my head round is that there seems to be no shortage of guys coming along that seem happy to borrow cash to set up dairys at a time when there are so many going out because they can't make enough money to justify the constant reinvestment. If you are in the low or zero debt position that allows you to do that I would suggest that you haven't been doing too badly up to now and probably have a system that suits your farm.

 

[Penmoel]

40 suckler cows and 700 sheep could not justify having our youngest son home here.
100 dairy cows and 300 sheep will

 

[beefandsleep]

Let them the milk price would boom

That's the nub though isn't it, how can we avoid the cycle, boom followed by bust as too many pile in. I don't think we can until the whole industry works together to control milk marketing and the chances of getting that back are about the same chance of a snowball in hell.

 

[beefandsleep]

40 suckler cows and 700 sheep could not justify having our youngest son home here.
100 dairy cows and 300 sheep will

I know this sounds incredibly disrespectful, it isn't meant that way but is 100 cows ever going to be anything other than a struggle to give even one family a good living compared to setting that farm up as a low labour grazing enterprise that allows your family to build careers off the farm? I guess at the end of the day it's the children's choice.

 

[Penmoel]

I know this sounds incredibly disrespectful, it isn't meant that way but is 100 cows ever going to be anything other than a struggle to give even one family a good living compared to setting that farm up as a low labour grazing enterprise that allows your family to build careers off the farm? I guess at the end of the day it's the children's choice.

You may well be right?
Perhaps we should ranch the place with easy care sheep ?? Then again easy care are not no care sheep and you have to enjoy and have some pride in what you are doing.

Your last sentence however swung it and I do think the farm will be better for having rotational dairy grazers. Oh and I should mention we are on an organic contract at 40ppl so we are not intensive in any case.