Organic Conversion

[Shropshire Farmer]

Currently exploring transferring my higher level stewardship agreement to higher tier stewardship with organic conversion. Initial feed back is that if there is a big environmental benefit Natural England will go for it.
How are people getting on getting paid for conversion by Natural England.
Also had anybody converted without the conversion payments?

 

[Agrivator]

I think the myths surrounding organic farming are about to be exploded by the Carbon - Footprint audits.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/05/2...land-and-dont-decrease-carbon-footprint-11338

 

[Shropshire Farmer]

Surely someone has a few pearls of wisdom on the subject

 

[Still Farming]

They just took the money round here ?
Always were spraying and sod the wildlife ripped good hedges out too .
Farse .

 

[glasshouse]

Surely someone has a few pearls of wisdom on the subject

if it suits you, go for it.

 

[Shropshire Farmer]

if it suits you, go for it.

I’ve no doubts that it will suit me and the farm

 

[Will Blackburn]

Good earner, without having to produce anything.

 

[Sid]

Currently exploring transferring my higher level stewardship agreement to higher tier stewardship with organic conversion. Initial feed back is that if there is a big environmental benefit Natural England will go for it.
How are people getting on getting paid for conversion by Natural England.
Also had anybody converted without the conversion payments?

I converted land without payments when there was a 6 month window between schemes.
If i had waited i would have missed out on usable forage for the dairy herd.

You say your looking at converting to Organic but you haven't mentioned the market your looking to supply?

 

[Sid]

Good earner, without having to produce anything.

£65/ha on rotational land on going. Yep real good earner!

 

[Shropshire Farmer]

£65/ha on rotational land on going. Yep real good earner!

So I won’t get conversion payments due to current stewardship agreement. If I was to break it. It could take 18 months to get into a new scheme and also perhaps another 12 months to get paid. Also unlikely to be anywhere near as good as the current scheme which would slot into organic farming just fine.

Market would be organic beef and lamb. Milling wheat, milling oats and beans. The market is good for all of the above.

My motivator for conversion is not conversion payments.

I have become pretty cynical about the input industry and no longer believe we as an industry are getting a good return on the investment we make.

 

[Will Blackburn]

£65/ha on rotational land on going. Yep real good earner!

Maybe more historically? Anyhow if they're not inclined to farm it's a bonus on the BPS.

 

[Sid]

Maybe more historically? Anyhow if they're not inclined to farm it's a bonus on the BPS.

Yeah historically and on the continent.
Costs involved in record keeping , inspection time etc

 

[Shropshire Farmer]

I like the whole thing about not paying for inputs or very few. We get convinced that if we don’t use something the crop will fail.

Having been to a number of organic dairy farmers at the tail end of last year. The thing that struck me was that they were more robust and capable of coping with a falling milk price. They weren’t having to pay for feed, fert etc every month.

 

[7610 super q]

Surely someone has a few pearls of wisdom on the subject

Weeds ? a mix of charlock and rape would be a nightmare. Won't be able to desiccate with Roundup....

 

[Sid]

Weeds ? a mix of charlock and rape would be a nightmare. Won't be able to desiccate with Roundup....

I grew some lupins.
Agronomist was sent along to walk crop.
Handed me a spray sheet when i walked in the field.
Spray x for flea beetle and y for charlock.

I looked at the crop the charlock nd the beetles.
The flea beetles were eating the charlock.
I said firstly its organic so no spraying. Secondly your a con man trying to sell me something i don't need.
Crop grew away from the charlock and smothered it.

 

[Shropshire Farmer]

I rest my case !!!

 

[Drillman]

I grew some lupins.
Agronomist was sent along to walk crop.
Handed me a spray sheet when i walked in the field.
Spray x for flea beetle and y for charlock.

I looked at the crop the charlock nd the beetles.
The flea beetles were eating the charlock.
I said firstly its organic so no spraying. Secondly your a con man trying to sell me something i don't need.
Crop grew away from the charlock and smothered it.

Last time my agronomist told me to spray charlock i refused and let the frost kill it.

 

[Al R]

I like the whole thing about not paying for inputs or very few. We get convinced that if we don’t use something the crop will fail.

Having been to a number of organic dairy farmers at the tail end of last year. The thing that struck me was that they were more robust and capable of coping with a falling milk price. They weren’t having to pay for feed, fert etc every month.

We’re organic, have been for 20-21 years. Suits our farm, it definetly wouldn’t suit every farm. Every field is rich in white clover even the old PP and cliff land.

We had to reduce our stocking rate from 3 ewes to the acre to 1.8 but now we’re back up to 3.5ewes/acre and more lambs than the before we were organic.

Our 6/7 year leys look good in all fairness but sheep suit it to the ground. We top almost the whole farm 3 times a year and we dig scotch thistles with a Ragfork.

After grass we put stubble turnips in to feed the sheep.
This is then ploughed in and Spring barley is grown and we’ve only had 3 crops not do 2t/acre in 20years! This year it yielded 2.3t/acre and 1.5t/acre of clean straw - cleaner than a lot of bodged conventional stuff I’ve seen over the years.
This is then ploughed in the following spring and Spring Oats is grown, undersown with grass/clover ley. The oats rarely doesn’t do 1.7- 1.8t/acre and a 1.3t/acre of straw.

We put no muck on as we only house a very small proportion of our ewes over lambing.

This year we bought a Opico grass Harrow to weed the corn every 5 days when young because charlock/rape is the main issue/competition! In the past Dad has topped the charlock out of the cereals in early June (sown first week of April) and also turning big mobs of sheep in little and often will take the charlock out.

Any other questions?

 

[texas pete]

We’re organic, have been for 20-21 years. Suits our farm, it definetly wouldn’t suit every farm. Every field is rich in white clover even the old PP and cliff land.

We had to reduce our stocking rate from 3 ewes to the acre to 1.8 but now we’re back up to 3.5ewes/acre and more lambs than the before we were organic.

Our 6/7 year leys look good in all fairness but sheep suit it to the ground. We top almost the whole farm 3 times a year and we dig scotch thistles with a Ragfork.

After grass we put stubble turnips in to feed the sheep.
This is then ploughed in and Spring barley is grown and we’ve only had 3 crops not do 2t/acre in 20years! This year it yielded 2.3t/acre and 1.5t/acre of clean straw - cleaner than a lot of bodged conventional stuff I’ve seen over the years.
This is then ploughed in the following spring and Spring Oats is grown, undersown with grass/clover ley. The oats rarely doesn’t do 1.7- 1.8t/acre and a 1.3t/acre of straw.

We put no muck on as we only house a very small proportion of our ewes over lambing.

This year we bought a Opico grass Harrow to weed the corn every 5 days when young because charlock/rape is the main issue/competition! In the past Dad has topped the charlock out of the cereals in early June (sown first week of April) and also turning big mobs of sheep in little and often will take the charlock out.

Any other questions?

Sounds a good system.

Out of interest, why are you now able to carry more ewes/ac?

 

[neilo]

Market would be organic beef and lamb. Milling wheat, milling oats and beans. The market is good for all of the above.

The premium for organic cereals appears to be good, probably with good reason, but is there much of a premium on organic beef? There certainly isn’t much for lamb (which is often very low input & near orgasmic anyway), with a lot of less evangelical organic sheep farmers just selling them as conventional.

Do you think the organic premium on cereals will make up for the lower yields & quality? How will you making milling premiums organically, or are the goalposts moved for organic wheat?
I know you’re at an advantage to a lot of organic converters, as you already run a mixed farm, but genuine questions.