Organic conversion.

[B'o'B]

Some time over the next few years our farm is going to come to a crossroads, with staff with nearly 50 years working for us likely to retire, or at the very least reduce hours and safe working capabilities. Uncertainty over future UK ag politics also plays a part in my soul searching.
We have been direct drilling for 19 years running a Dale drill a JD3350 for crop establishment. This has, and still is, working very well for us. But in some ways I wish to take the farm on another step, but I’m not exactly sure what that step should be, so I’m exploring as many options as I can think of.
The farm is 290Ha arable and 10Ha of permanent pasture. Having spent the last couple of days at Groundswell, a couple of friends have been encouraging me to look more closely at conversion to organic.
Currently we have 50 sheep but if I’m honest stock is not my passion, I enjoy growing crops and currently we grow quite a lot of crops for seed production and that has been our “specialty” for a couple of generations.
Soils are predominantly limestone brash, we farm the land on an AHA tenancy.
So my question is what would be a sensible rotation for organic cropping on limestone brash? Could it be done realistically without significant livestock? What sort of yields and prices are realistically achievable under organic production on limestone brash, and how many cash crop years to fertility building years should I be budgeting for?
I like to think I have a good attention to detail and flexible approach to life’s challenges (having said that I’m sure most people feel that way about themselves!). Any other words of wisdom around this topic would also be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[Feldspar]

How about considering a hefty environmental scheme either as a bridge into organic or as and end in itself to work with and boost profitability of the arable enterprise? We've done a big environmental scheme to protect against political and economic uncertainty. It's not ideal because we're heavily relying on fallow mainly because it's simple and we don't trust the govt to honour their promises. No doubt though it's a big change to how we are operating and allows us to farm an increasing acreage with less machinery, less stress hopefully, higher profits, not so many silly hours, and perhaps outfoxing some weeds too.

 

[B'o'B]

How about considering a hefty environmental scheme either as a bridge into organic or as and end in itself to work with and boost profitability of the arable enterprise? We've done a big environmental scheme to protect against political and economic uncertainty. It's not ideal because we're heavily relying on fallow mainly because it's simple and we don't trust the govt to honour their promises. No doubt though it's a big change to how we are operating and allows us to farm an increasing acreage with less machinery, less stress hopefully, higher profits, not so many silly hours, and perhaps outfoxing some weeds too.

That option is also very much on the cards and is how I have been thinking over the last couple of months, but before I am committed to 5 years of that, I really should explore a more diverse range of options and possibilities. That’s what I love about Groundswell, it challenges your preconceptions and stretches your boundaries of possibilities.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I have no words of wisdom but:

• Whats the premium on organic lamb? Not much.
• Cattle? - Don't discount costs of infrastructure for them, handling facilities, dead ones etc. Do Sucklers pay? Not really
• Organic cropping may end up more tractor hours than you do now- even if less acres covered. And probably more hp needed and more hp/ha. Are you prepared for that?
• You will probably bale your straw so need kit for all that
• Organic arable or mostly arable may be technically possible but you will always be pushing the system to the max in fertility terms.
• Grass Seed/ Clover for organic can be pricey.

On the plus side you will never need to grow OSR again!

From how you've looked at it all so far - how much more money will organic farming put in your back pocket?

If you said you were interested in organic dairying then I can see why it may appeal. I expect organic veg is a murderous business to be in.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Out of interest, what crops are you growing for seedstock?
I'd imagine a reasonable organic premium on those?

I've often toyed with small scale seed production purely for covercropping, eg less reliance on "The Clean Monoculture" which is looking like an increasingly challenging way to make a living.
The diverse cover thing is really taking off down here, unsure of the momentum in the UK; you get the benefits of growing continuous cover crops while having a high-value product to sell and market.

I guess you already have a good working relationship with The Seed Police?

Basically the "boxed lamb" of the cropping world.
Edit: I see Will mentioned the high seed price for Organic seed- can you capitalise on the differential?

 

[B'o'B]

Out of interest, what crops are you growing for seedstock?
I'd imagine a reasonable organic premium on those?

I've often toyed with small scale seed production purely for covercropping, eg less reliance on "The Clean Monoculture" which is looking like an increasingly challenging way to make a living.
The diverse cover thing is really taking off down here, unsure of the momentum in the UK; you get the benefits of growing continuous cover crops while having a high-value product to sell and market.

I guess you already have a good working relationship with The Seed Police?

Basically the "boxed lamb" of the cropping world.
Edit: I see Will mentioned the high seed price for Organic seed- can you capitalise on the differential?

Currently growing wheat, rape, vining pea seed and production of hybrid rye seed.
But have done both field and broad beans, linseed, grass seed, clover, swede and barley in the past. I’m not sure I’d confidently go straight to organic seed production without learning the ropes a bit first. I have never farmed without at least the option of reaching for the spray can to address a problem, if we were to go down this road I would need to go through a conversion process even more than the land to make it work properly. But it could well be an avenue to explore, we were asked about it some time in the dim and distant past and if I recall correctly the premium was fairly tasty back then.

 

[New Puritan]

I can't offer much in the way of advice, but I think @SilliamWhale 's points above are well worth bearing in mind.

Do you know of other farmers nearby who are already organic, who you could go and see? They would be able to say best what the soil yields like where you are.

Or look here: https://www.agricology.co.uk/field/farmer-profiles for possible people to get in touch with (a few are on here already, not all are organic but there's an interesting mix).

Are there any organic livestock farms nearby you could do muck for straw deals with, or grow feed for (even if just selling them tailings etc.?)

Mid Tier is worth applying for, it's undersubscribed (I think?), and is free money. Whatever you may think of subsidies if they are handing it out you may as well take it. If you only opt for 'OR3' for the first 2 years and then 'OT3' for the following 3 of a mid tier agreement, they'll give you £175/ha for 2 years and then £65/ha for the last 3. Being organic you are exempt from the greening rules, so you can do 6m margins along shady boundaries etc. and claim for those as well.

 

[Horn&corn]

Just seen this thread. All the stockless organic farms I know of have now become fairly heavily stocked as it’s money for an otherwise wasted crop. If not stock are you near AD plant or compost unit to put something back? If stock won’t work for you or it’s not your thing then perhaps contract help at peak times to continue as you are if you’re doing it profitably?