'Organic' dairy farmer dropped after selling non-organic milk

[Henarar]

Oh yes but I am not sure if it was organic rain tho

I should think so as no other type of rain would dare fall on an organic farmer

we had a little bit of drizzle as I got back with the logs but that's it, it must only be organic rain about today looking for a home

 

[Sid]

Unfortunately I am with @Sid here and know the market is slowly growing but we are way behind on the amount of organic milk consumed on the continent, so the potential is there to grow the market as long as it’s grown without negative marketing campaigns of conventional milk any consumer trading up is good for us all.
Where I am not with @Sid is where he is calling other members trolls as there is no one worse than him for trolling, especially a certain subject which if you look back he will be the biggest contributor on another thread on here with his stupid accusations.

Stupid or unfounded.
There is a difference.

 

[jondear]

Some do tho eh, ive sold non organic silage to organic farm before.

Well shop him then ! Oh you won't because your feeding an illegal activity.Then telling everyone that listens.

 

[betweenthelines]

Sid, you keep posting that there is a "legal" definition of "organic" enshrined in law.

As all Acts of Law in this country are passed by Parliament, could you share some details of the relevant Act of Parliament? EG when it was voted through and by what margin, the penalties for breaking this "Law" and hopefully the main wording of the Act, and which Govt Dept polices this Law

I always thought Organic status was regulated by non governmental self interest groups, such as the Soil Association (bit like asking the RSPCA to regulate animal welfare) I'd be delighted for you to prove me wrong by furnishing the above information

 

[multi power]

May as well say marks and Spencer are fraudsters, they charge more than Aldi
Same with fent, much dearer than zetor
What is the difference ?

 

[Hilly]

Well shop him then ! Oh you won't because your feeding an illegal activity.Then telling everyone that listens.

fek off.

 

[Sid]

Sid, you keep posting that there is a "legal" definition of "organic" enshrined in law.

As all Acts of Law in this country are passed by Parliament, could you share some details of the relevant Act of Parliament? EG when it was voted through and by what margin, the penalties for breaking this "Law" and hopefully the main wording of the Act, and which Govt Dept polices this Law

I always thought Organic status was regulated by non governmental self interest groups, such as the Soil Association (bit like asking the RSPCA to regulate animal welfare) I'd be delighted for you to prove me wrong by furnishing the above information

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/organic-food-labelling-rules

https://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/eu-policy/eu-legislation/brief-overview_en

http://www.ifoam-eu.org/en/organic-regulations/list-eu-organic-regulations


To quote DEFRA "You’re breaking the law if you call a food product ‘organic’ if it hasn’t been inspected and certified by one of the UK’s 9 organic control bodies (CBs)."
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/organic-farming-how-to-get-certification-and-apply-for-funding


So if you search you shall find. Wasn't that hard for me, but then I know about the rules rather than speculating about what ifs.

 

[betweenthelines]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/organic-food-labelling-rules
MUST BE 95% ORGANIC IE CAN BE 5% NON ORGANIC
https://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/eu-policy/eu-legislation/brief-overview_en
AS ABOVE CAN BE 95% ORGANIC
http://www.ifoam-eu.org/en/organic-regulations/list-eu-organic-regulations
LIST OF EU REGS DRAWN UP BY BODY WHO'S AIM IS TO PROMOTE ORGANIC FOOD

To quote DEFRA "You’re breaking the law if you call a food product ‘organic’ if it hasn’t been inspected and certified by one of the UK’s 9 organic control bodies (CBs)."
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/organic-farming-how-to-get-certification-and-apply-for-funding
NO INDEPENDENT ORGANIC CERTIFICATION BODY

So if you search you shall find. Wasn't that hard for me, but then I know about the rules rather than speculating about what ifs.

About three minutes research to confirm that it's legal to label and sell goods as organic if they contain up to 5% non organic goods. Also that all the certification bodies are groups that promote the sale of organic goods (or, oddly enough, they share e-mail addresses with Soil Assn), rather like saying that Ford, Vauxhall, Nissan etc. can issue driving licences.

So Sid, thanks to your research I can confirm that there is no INDEPENDENT verification of what is or isn't organic, and it doesn't matter anyway as you could stick 5% ordinary milk in the tank and still label it organic.

Sid, you do what you like, but don't imply that "organic" is any different, or better than, normally produced product. If some customers believe it is, that's up to them.

 

[Martyn]

I wonder if the forum moderators could make organic farming section, like dairy, cropping etc as there seams to be a lot of organic members. Are there any organic forums that people can recomend but hopefully Sid and a few others dont use! Organic is massive and growing, like every industry someone will try and make a fast buck, the vast majority are hard working pasionet farmers who enjoy farmers organicaly. There is nothing wrong with conventional farming either. We are in convertion and look foward to the omsco lorry coming and our beef lamb and cereals going into diffrent organic markets.Are there any organic discusion groups in Devon/Cornwall?

 

[Sid]

About three minutes research to confirm that it's legal to label and sell goods as organic if they contain up to 5% non organic goods. Also that all the certification bodies are groups that promote the sale of organic goods (or, oddly enough, they share e-mail addresses with Soil Assn), rather like saying that Ford, Vauxhall, Nissan etc. can issue driving licences.

So Sid, thanks to your research I can confirm that there is no INDEPENDENT verification of what is or isn't organic, and it doesn't matter anyway as you could stick 5% ordinary milk in the tank and still label it organic.

Sid, you do what you like, but don't imply that "organic" is any different, or better than, normally produced product. If some customers believe it is, that's up to them.

You also need to goto specsavers.
Soil association certification is seperate body to The Soil Association. SA cert does not promote organic.

 

[peclova]

Well shop him then ! Oh you won't because your feeding an illegal activity.Then telling everyone that listens.

Who says it is an illegal activity? It may contravene the certification bodies regulations, if there is no derogation in place, but selling non-organic fodder to an organic farm is not illegal as it breaks no law.

 

[cornishfarmer]

do osmco/arla/ other dairy's do extra inspections for organic farmers or do they leave to the SA? the accountants would be able to pick up very quickly whats going on. like said in earlier post its the cheats that spoil ot for the genuine ones. BUT it seems that other farmers can find these dishonest farmers but the SA cant

 

[peclova]

You also need to goto specsavers.
Soil association certification is seperate body to The Soil Association. SA cert does not promote organic.

Seperate legal entities maybe; but they are to all tense an purpose both one organisation.

 

[Hilly]

I wonder if the forum moderators could make organic farming section, like dairy, cropping etc as there seams to be a lot of organic members. Are there any organic forums that people can recomend but hopefully Sid and a few others dont use! Organic is massive and growing, like every industry someone will try and make a fast buck, the vast majority are hard working pasionet farmers who enjoy farmers organicaly. There is nothing wrong with conventional farming either. We are in convertion and look foward to the omsco lorry coming and our beef lamb and cereals going into diffrent organic markets.Are there any organic discusion groups in Devon/Cornwall?

Like everything in life is a small minority that spoil things for the majority sadly.

 

[Hilly]

Who says it is an illegal activity? It may contravene the certification bodies regulations, if there is no derogation in place, but selling non-organic fodder to an organic farm is not illegal as it breaks no law.

Exactly, im not the organic police ! he might not even have fed is organic cows with it might have sold it on for a few quid, doubt it though

 

[Chips]

do osmco/arla/ other dairy's do extra inspections for organic farmers or do they leave to the SA? the accountants would be able to pick up very quickly whats going on. like said in earlier post its the cheats that spoil ot for the genuine ones. BUT it seems that other farmers can find these dishonest farmers but the SA cant

You have to make your accounts available at every inspection .
You'll all be relieved to know that my straw yards are bedded with organic straw !

 

[cornishfarmer]

You have to make your accounts available at every inspection .
You'll all be relived to know that my straw yards are bedded with organic straw !

I couldn’t care less what your yard it bedded with, I can’t see any trouble with non organic straw being used. What I care about is OUR COOP, buying milk from farmers that clearly flout the rules. It gives you, Sid and all the other good organic farmers a bad name. When horsegate broke it was all beef that was tainted not just the ones that broke the law

 

[som farmer]

when we used to grow corn we were very grateful for straw shorteners, other wise loads of straw,but very flat, are these organic as well?
but each to his own, play by the rules, produce what your buyers want, and hopefully make a profit.
I'm not organic, but there are many ways organic farming can help us 'nons' especially use of muck, rotations etc.
what I don't like is all this knocking each other, I can only imagine what vegans vege's of the more fanatical inclination make of all these comments.
I do agree about those organic farmers that break the rules, bugger it up for those that don't.
reporting them? I can't talk, i have two oganic farmers as neighbors, 1 plays by the rules, the other seriously don't, could you report someone you've known for years?
slightly different question, can anyone tell me how to grow cabbages organically without bug holes or caterpillars. i gave up trying years ago

 

[Barleycorn]

Tell that to the idiots at DEFRA who won't permit any storage on the same plot for more than 12 months.

I see in the 2018 BPS pdf that now it is allowed in the same place for 3 years. Don't know when it changed.

 

[gone up the hill]

All consumers that buy organic produce buy it because they think the meat/ milk etc come from animals that have been reared on grassland/ from crops that don't receive any meds/ the land hasn't come into contact with any form of sprays/ fert etc etc, trouble is all this is a myth on some organic farms.......

And surely the whole point of organic produce costing more in the shops is to cover the increased production costs from lower yields/ lower stocking rates etc so what a nonsense that some organic farmers on this thread say they use conventional straw as its cheaper than organic straw.

And if organic straw is impossible to find then surely the answer is for organic farms to cut stocking rates and grow their own straw.