'Organic' dairy farmer dropped after selling non-organic milk

Scholsey

Member
Location
Herefordshire
All consumers that buy organic produce buy it because they think the meat/ milk etc come from animals that have been reared on grassland/ from crops that don't receive any meds/ the land hasn't come into contact with any form of sprays/ fert etc etc, trouble is all this is a myth on some organic farms.......

And surely the whole point of organic produce costing more in the shops is to cover the increased production costs from lower yields/ lower stocking rates etc so what a nonsense that some organic farmers on this thread say they use conventional straw as its cheaper than organic straw.

And if organic straw is impossible to find then surely the answer is for organic farms to cut stocking rates and grow their own straw.


Do you buy organic food or are you a spokesman for every person that has ever bought organic produce?

As mentioned before we have a lot of people visit our farm all of which are very understanding that we still use antibiotics to treat poorly animals. My other half who is a GP thinks the fact we are
No longer allowed to use the likes of excenell/readycef/marbocyl is a huge step forward for human health than when we were conventional, when I am feeling in a bit of smarter mood and have a scan through the BMJ there is rarely a issue without AB resistance being bought up.

There seems to be a few contributors to this thread who seem to think they know more about what organic food consumers want than the organic food consumers themselves!
 
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Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
What is your problem with organic farmers?!? Our organic cake is £390/t at the moment, our close up calvers are on straw for 3 weeks and youngstock upto 9 months old, everything else on cubicles with sawdust. If you dont like it dont buy it, your starting to sound like the farmer equivalent of a vegan with some kind of personal vendetta. The majority of people who buy organic produce are probably far more aware of the rules and regs that govern how their food is produced than people that buy conventional is produced hence why are they happy to pay a premium.

Where have I said I have a problem with organic farmers? Could you quote it for me ?
I was just having a discussion about it and other things like what is natural
I did say I had thought about becoming an organic farmer as I could see there was some money to be made from it why would I want to become something I have a problem with
I don't have a problem with them I think its good busness both for them and the non organic farmers that supply them

By belittling our products and making out we are con artists.

could you quote where I have done this ?
Well ?
 
@Scholsey im with you about using less of the drugs but GP’s have a massive part to play in this also. Our kids go to school and there is a drastic difference in what the youngsters get prescribed in different surgeries. On a good note, lot of the doctors are so busy so kids better before they can get an appointment
 
On a separate note, would upping the cc bands reduce antibiotic usage, we are 200k think dc 150k and believe OMSCo are higher. The limit that can be sold is 400k. If they upped it surely would that cut back on more being used
 

Scholsey

Member
Location
Herefordshire
@Scholsey im with you about using less of the drugs but GP’s have a massive part to play in this also. Our kids go to school and there is a drastic difference in what the youngsters get prescribed in different surgeries. On a good note, lot of the doctors are so busy so kids better before they can get an appointment

Unfortunately i dont have much say with the ongoings with the NHS or the prescription practices GPs in Cornwall but i know there is a huge push to reduce antibiotic prescriptions but when someone has already bought their kid in because they have had a runny nose or a tickly cough for 1 day its a huge burden on the top heavy, inefficient NHS.

In my opinion and definitely not saying it in your case but the NHS is having to bare the brunt of a lot of poor parenting diabetes/shocking diets/lazy inactive children especially in less affluent areas as no longer have the hard as nails grandmother who lived through the war offering advice.

On a separate note, would upping the cc bands reduce antibiotic usage, we are 200k think dc 150k and believe OMSCo are higher. The limit that can be sold is 400k. If they upped it surely would that cut back on more being used

Our SCC has gone up 30-40 from when we were conventional but we have used 20% of the DC tubes and 30% of the mastitis tubes compared to our last 6 months in conventional production.


oh and there may well be a premium for the fodder seller for the night time delivery so everyone is happy :)
can't see the problem with this model ?
nobody gets hurt ?
and its not like there is any poison changing hands

any that lie on it I would think

So use of non organic straw is ok because its convenient
Right I get it now .wouldn't want it to be much of a challenge

So if your not belittling and making out we are con artists what has been the purpose of your 20+ posts on this thread? Or are you just baiting/trolling? Its not just farmers that read this and nothing good can come from some of the accusations being made on here with little/nothing to back it up.

Theres always going to be a small minority to bend/break the rules, conventional bedding straw is well within the rules, the rule makers dont have a problem with it, the consumers who read/find out about how their food is produced dont have a problem with it and those are the only opinions that matter.

If you dont like it fine, thats your business write a strongly worded letter to SA/OF&G of Defra and see how you get on.
 
@Scholsey my mrs works in NHS also. It drives me wild with some of the wastage that goes on. I think if they had half dozen beef and sheep farmers and half a dozen spring calving farmers doing expenses they would cut £bn’s Off costs. Out of interest would you be over or under the arla threshold for cc? Must admit when milk link went from 150 to 200 we cut usage by a fair bit
 

Scholsey

Member
Location
Herefordshire
@Scholsey my mrs works in NHS also. It drives me wild with some of the wastage that goes on. I think if they had half dozen beef and sheep farmers and half a dozen spring calving farmers doing expenses they would cut £bn’s Off costs. Out of interest would you be over or under the arla threshold for cc? Must admit when milk link went from 150 to 200 we cut usage by a fair bit

I don’t know what the Arla threshold is to be honest.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
So if your not belittling and making out we are con artists what has been the purpose of your 20+ posts on this thread? Or are you just baiting/trolling? Its not just farmers that read this and nothing good can come from some of the accusations being made on here with little/nothing to back it up.
Would you quote these posts please ?
seems to me you should look to some of the organic producers post on this thread if you want belittling baiting and trolling and before you ask I could quote lots of them
 

Scholsey

Member
Location
Herefordshire
Would you quote these posts please ?
seems to me you should look to some of the organic producers post on this thread if you want belittling baiting and trolling and before you ask I could quote lots of them

I have quoted you, if your so sure your not belittling/making out we’re con artists what are you trying to achieve by your 20+ posts on here?

I don’t agree or condone some of the replies on here but I am not the organic king of the world so can’t really be held responsible for what others say.

The only reason I have replied is incase anyone who buys organic produces see’s the statements on here without being contested by someone who actually knows the rules/regs.

As I said if you have a problem write to the SA or OF+G.

Right, I can’t help but feel I have wasted a lot of my time replying to someone who quite obviously has way too much time on their hands and more concerned with things that effect others businesses than their own

.(y)
 
Location
southwest
But that's the trouble isn't it, Scholsey- the rules are made up by self interest groups like SA & OG+G, with no evidence that what they claim for the "product" is true. And there's so many exemptions that the whole thing is ridiculous-not just non-organic straw, but what's the logic behind doubling withdrawal periods for meds, but three treatments and you're out? surely if doubling the withdrawal means the cow is "organic" again, what does it matter how many times it's been ill?

50 years ago SA was considered to be a bunch of sandal wearing weirdo's who knew sod all about farming. I don't think the knowledge base has grown, but the whole idea is now fashionable . But then, some people think stress or electromagnetic fields cause cancer (Cancer Research UK have confirmed they don't)

Just imagine a future where you need PETA approval to keep livestock
 

Scholsey

Member
Location
Herefordshire
But that's the trouble isn't it, Scholsey- the rules are made up by self interest groups like SA & OG+G, with no evidence that what they claim for the "product" is true. And there's so many exemptions that the whole thing is ridiculous-not just non-organic straw, but what's the logic behind doubling withdrawal periods for meds, but three treatments and you're out? surely if doubling the withdrawal means the cow is "organic" again, what does it matter how many times it's been ill?

50 years ago SA was considered to be a bunch of sandal wearing weirdo's who knew sod all about farming. I don't think the knowledge base has grown, but the whole idea is now fashionable . But then, some people think stress or electromagnetic fields cause cancer (Cancer Research UK have confirmed they don't)

Just imagine a future where you need PETA approval to keep livestock

I totally agree, thousands of animals have been killed to test for antibiotic residues and 72/84 hours etc is the scientifically proven withdrawal period, doubling it is just to be different and for a extra selling point for organic produce.

The straw thing, yes it’s not ideal, believe me I would rather I could bed on organic straw because it would mean there are a 5hit ton more organic cereals being grown so our cake wouldn’t cost £400 and lots of the ingredients wouldn’t need to come from Afghanistan! But it’s in the rules because it keeps everything sustainable without compromising animal welfare.

I don’t understand how some farmers find it so hard to grasp the fact that what we do isn’t because our grandfather farmed or we like razzing about on tractors, we do it whether we like it or not because someone wants to buy our product. Whether you agree with the product is illrelevant if someone believes in it and wants to buy it then they will and you can either be the one being paid for it or the one moaning that your not.

There’s thousands of acres of apples in the country that won’t be picked next year, why? Because people don’t want to drink cider anymore.

Battery hen farms are struggling to get contracts renewed, why? Because more and more people are turning against caged eggs.

It’s supply and demand, and whether we like it or not we are always going to be being told what we need to do by the rule makers FA, Rspca, Defra, SA, of&g and told what to produce by Tesco’s, Arla, cargills, dunbia, McDonald’s etc who are answerable to.......the consumer.

So to summarise my wittering, it doesn’t matter what we think is right, it’s what average jo/joe behind their shopping trolley thinks is right is what we have to farm to.
 

newholland

Member
Location
England
I would suggest to any member of the public or any member of TFF who wishes to see the high standards required for a well run, fully certified organic farm in reality, then they should have a look around for an organic farm to visit on open farm Sunday.
 
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S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Just to clarify that non farm assured animals can NOT become assured over night as has been implied on this thread.

They have to be on a assured farm for several months before they can become assured.

Vey sad when any organic farmer seeks to slate non organic farming methods/ assurance schemes like has happened on this thread.

Very clear from many comments from all coventional farmers on this thread that they support/ respect organic farming but such a shame that the odd organic farmer cant return that respect/ support to conventional farmers in the same way :(

How do you respect organic farmers when you said earlier in the thread that it's a con.

You've spouted rubbish on this thread from what you've heard in a market.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
It could do when the public realise how much "off label" usage of vet and med in conventional dairy goes on!
Seeing as we are throwing mud!
talking to the vet the other day, he thinks that eventually we will all have on line medicines records, which will tie in with on line records from the vet so there will be an audit trail to show which animals the antibiotics are bought for and used on. I think in Denmark, all fertiliser bought has to be part of an audit-able fertiliser plan and you can not buy more than certain limits for application to the number of IACS acres you have.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
So to summarise my wittering, it doesn’t matter what we think is right, it’s what average jo/joe behind their shopping trolley thinks is right is what we have to farm to.
sometimes its what they are told to think
and a lot of the time its produce as cheap as you can
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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