Organic farming

WelshSmallholder1404

Member
Livestock Farmer
If you want to get on with farmers you need to ease off the throttle a bit , I know plenty who still raise a few turkeys and sell to locals and what about farmers markets
As does mother but you see the principle of what I’m saying. Just emphasising the point that a progressive view on farming teamed with my fathers old, experienced point of view is the way forward.
Older farmers, such as my father, really can be stuck in their ways🤣 Highlighting why I’m reading up on organic, we’ve spoken of it so want to delve into it a bit to discuss it further with my dad.
Also, farmers markets are well above board- hardly a cash in hand from your neighbours is it? Government all over public sale of goods nowadays, really is a shame that things aren’t as they were many moons ago. Though I do accept that some change has been for the good.
 
Last edited:

Agrivator

Member

During 20 years of research into organic farming at Newcastle University's Nafferton Farm, I don't know if any of their findings or novel ideas or systems have added to our overall knowledge. And that is despite the fact that the staff are completely biased towards ''Organic Farming''.
 

WelshSmallholder1404

Member
Livestock Farmer

During 20 years of research into organic farming at Newcastle University's Nafferton Farm, I don't know if any of their findings or novel ideas or systems have added to our overall knowledge. And that is despite the fact that the staff are completely biased towards ''Organic Farming''.
2014 (for crops) and 2016 (for milk and meat) the Organic Food Quality project published three extensive systematic literature reviews which:
  • report results from meta-analyses of published data showing that there are significant and nutritionally relevant composition differences between organic and conventional foods
  • summarise results from animal dietary intervention studiesshowing that organic food consumption has significant effects on physiological parameters in animals linked to health (including hormonal balances and immune system responsiveness) and
  • review evidence from human cohort studies indicating that there are significant positive associations between organic food consumption and a reduced risk of certain disease
The Organic Food Quality team welcomes the continued public and scientific debate on this important subject. The entire database generated in the systematic literature review and used for the meta-analysis is freely available on the Newcastle University website (http://research.ncl.ac.uk/nefg/QOF) for the benefit of other experts and interested members of the public.”
Not that I am saying I’m going organic tomorrow and will scream about it from the rooftops at all, I’m just looking into it but your link does say the above. Will do some more research into it as I’m sure some developments have come about since 2016.
 
Location
Ceredigion
As does mother but you see the principle of what I’m saying. Just emphasising the point that a progressive view on farming teamed with my fathers old, experienced point of view is the way forward.
Older farmers, such as my father, really can be stuck in their ways🤣 Highlighting why I’m reading up on organic, we’ve spoken of it so want to delve into it a bit to discuss it further with my dad.
Also, farmers markets are well above board- hardly a cash in hand from your neighbours is it? Government all over public sale of goods nowadays, really is a shame that things aren’t as they were many moons ago. Though I do accept that some change has been for the good.
Which highlights the Complexities of farming , my dad was never a stick in the mud type, but appreciate some can be
 

Scholsey

Member
Location
Herefordshire
This is funny🤣 I got to “organic crap” and ignored the rest of that paragraph…

I take what you’re saying that there may not be a difference if you tasted one after the other but there is a difference in the price we receive.
Undoubtedly, with the pressures from the government we are being pushed towards a more sustainable form of farming. Studying from the books and taking knowledge from my father is a perfect combination of learning lessons and looking forward. I think I would be stupid to not look to the future and try to tailor the growth of our farm for that. Farming itself is becoming a more scientific profession with greater need for educated farmers. Gone are the days of us raising turkeys and selling them to the locals at xmas time, things are above board, clinical maybe, and science plays and will continue to play, a big part in the development of our profession. Great days when we could go out farm and come home, but a progressive, sustainable farming is the way forward.

A lot of people get to Betweenthelines and ignore the rest to be fair so I wouldn’t worry.

The book Sid suggested is good but must admit is buried in my book case not been dragged out for a while.

I thought converting to organic was going to be a huge change, just means have to think about things a bit more and sometimes quite difficult to have a plan b (dirty reseeds etc).

Currently looking at the weedest patch of fodder beet ever but isn’t worth surfing it as it’s just fat hen, get a good strimmer and a billhook as you will hate thistles more and more.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
This is funny🤣 I got to “organic crap” and ignored the rest of that paragraph…

I take what you’re saying that there may not be a difference if you tasted one after the other but there is a difference in the price we receive.
Undoubtedly, with the pressures from the government we are being pushed towards a more sustainable form of farming. Studying from the books and taking knowledge from my father is a perfect combination of learning lessons and looking forward. I think I would be stupid to not look to the future and try to tailor the growth of our farm for that. Farming itself is becoming a more scientific profession with greater need for educated farmers. Gone are the days of us raising turkeys and selling them to the locals at xmas time, things are above board, clinical maybe, and science plays and will continue to play, a big part in the development of our profession. Great days when we could go out farm and come home, but a progressive, sustainable farming is the way forward.
Most working farmers are “educated”
Unfortuneatly all the city types who now own farms are not.
 
As a scientist you'll soon see that all the "organic" crap is mostly as science based as the saying there's a man in the moon.

No scientific basis for all the ridiculous claims made by self interest groups like the Soil Assn and farmer Sid.

No one can tell the difference between an "organic" steak or glass of milk and the same product from a traditional source


As for Sid's comments about nothing new in agriculture, for once he's spot on. People were caponising (hormone treating) poultry 50 years ago.
I disagree totally, the metric we need to evaluate agriculture is how many calories of energy are needed to produce a calorie of food, by this metric organic is far better. Conventional agriculture is destroying the soil, where as regenerative (organic or not) is building soil
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
I disagree totally, the metric we need to evaluate agriculture is how many calories of energy are needed to produce a calorie of food, by this metric organic is far better. Conventional agriculture is destroying the soil, where as regenerative (organic or not) is building soil
Yee gods man as if farming isn’t complicated enough now you want us to start counting calories?
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Yee gods man as if farming isn’t complicated enough now you want us to start counting calories?
It's only the same as doing a nutrient budget for your rotation.

If your putting in more energy than your harvesting then you on a slippery slope.

AD plants are a great example , in the whole, of how not to do it.
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
I disagree totally, the metric we need to evaluate agriculture is how many calories of energy are needed to produce a calorie of food, by this metric organic is far better. Conventional agriculture is destroying the soil, where as regenerative (organic or not) is building soil
There is a happy medium which would work far better, having farmed conventionally on super high input systems and organic too a mix between the 2 would be the ideal world if carbon was counted etc.
One dose of roundup and min till would be far better than plough, roll, power Harrow etc, by the time you count the diesel used to do those jobs a single dose of roundup would be a lot more worthwhile. Maybe I should call it “BoB-Ag” 🤷🏻‍♂️ (Best of Both)
 
Location
southwest
If the public want to pay more for "organic" food that's up to them and I have no problem with farmers exploiting that (but look on the Dairy forum and you'll see that Omsco are paying less than most other Processors atm)

What I do have a problem with is the organic zealots who, like Religious zealots, insist, with no independent evidence, that their way is somehow "better" or "more worthy" or "sustainable"-whatever that means.

What is worthy, better or more sustainable about reducing output per acre when the shortfall will be covered by turning vast areas of rain forest into intensively farmed land?

Flog your high priced stuff to the public, but please stop telling everyone you are saving the planet.

It also irks that the very term "organic" as applied to foods seems highly flexible-for instance if a cow on an "organic" farm gets mastitis, it can be treated with AB's it's milk is dumped (as with non organic AB treated cows) and after a few days, it's milk goes back into the "organic" pool as the cow magically becomes "organic" once more.

What's wrong with using scientific knowledge to improve things anyway? Isn't this what happens every time someone visits a Doctor or takes some medicines?
 

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