Organic farming

[flowerpot]

Surely at one time everyone was an organic farmer as there were no chemicals available, or sprayers to put them on and no manufactured fertiliser.

People survived, more or less, although obviously farmers weren't trying to feed 70 million people in the UK.

There is quite a big organic sector in the USA, not surprising when some of their normal "food standards" can be dire.

 

[Al R]

Surely at one time everyone was an organic farmer as there were no chemicals available, or sprayers to put them on and no manufactured fertiliser.

People survived, more or less, although obviously farmers weren't trying to feed 70 million people in the UK.

There is quite a big organic sector in the USA, not surprising when some of their normal "food standards" can be dire.

The US really does have 3 standards though, strict organic, conventional as we know it and then GM etc, the amount of pesticides they can still use out there is frightening - equally the volumes they use things at…

Im glad @Scholsey thinks the same way I do that a 1-7 kill with roundup would save all the diesel and time wasted cleaning crops up etc…

 

[glasshouse]

Surely at one time everyone was an organic farmer as there were no chemicals available, or sprayers to put them on and no manufactured fertiliser.

People survived, more or less, although obviously farmers weren't trying to feed 70 million people in the UK.

There is quite a big organic sector in the USA, not surprising when some of their normal "food standards" can be dire.

Yes But there was plenty cheap labour to pull docks thistles and wild oats.
Hoe turnips etc

 

[flowerpot]

I buy Yeo Valley Dairy organic products, because they taste better than other makes. I find organic vegetables usually taste better too. Organic chicken certainly tastes better, but is it worth the double price tag?

I haven't found the same when buying beef, any organic meat I have cooked doesn't seem to be nearly as good as "normal." But then Mr. Morrison buys in the local markets where most beef cattle would come from the mixed farms eating grass in the summer and silage and hay in the winter. Beef from local farm shops can be variable, to say the least. I can't honestly say that they are better than Morrisons.

 

[glasshouse]

The US really does have 3 standards though, strict organic, conventional as we know it and then GM etc, the amount of pesticides they can still use out there is frightening - equally the volumes they use things at…

Im glad @Scholsey thinks the same way I do that a 1-7 kill with roundup would save all the diesel and time wasted cleaning crops up etc…

If it was sprayed on stubble

 

[glasshouse]

I went organic in 96
There were several fields with permanent game cover strips sown by by the estate but otherwise untended.
Despite several hammerings with roundup, the dock and thistle seedbank rendered
Those fields unfarmable eventually

 

[Scholsey]

I buy Yeo Valley Dairy organic products, because they taste better than other makes. I find organic vegetables usually taste better too. Organic chicken certainly tastes better, but is it worth the double price tag?

I haven't found the same when buying beef, any organic meat I have cooked doesn't seem to be nearly as good as "normal." But then Mr. Morrison buys in the local markets where most beef cattle would come from the mixed farms eating grass in the summer and silage and hay in the winter. Beef from local farm shops can be variable, to say the least. I can't honestly say that they are better than Morrisons.

Not sure on the dairy side taste wise but the organic chicken is because its more than a 2 month old chick when you eat it!

I have no issue buying conventional dairy products, and have yogurts from LLAETH-Y-LLAN delivered by the milk man once a week, we also have organic veg/fruit delivered weekly purely because thats whats available local to us but there are bananas in the box and cant imagine that the organic standards in the Caribbean are that strictly adhered to.

If i was a cow i think i would rather have a option of going outside but i wouldnt have fancied being shut outside in 34 degrees last month or being a dry cow on some muddy kale field in March 18 with 2 foot of snow so neither guarantees a perfect life for every cow but i definitely wouldnt want to be a intensively reared broiler chicken!

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I disagree totally, the metric we need to evaluate agriculture is how many calories of energy are needed to produce a calorie of food, by this metric organic is far better. Conventional agriculture is destroying the soil, where as regenerative (organic or not) is building soil

Agree with you about the calorie measurement. Organic farming though, does seem to rely more on cultivations which require energy and degrade soils.

 

[Scholsey]

I went organic in 96
There were several fields with permanent game cover strips sown by by the estate but otherwise untended.
Despite several hammerings with roundup, the dock and thistle seedbank rendered
Those fields unfarmable eventually

got a beet field with a major fathen problem, but also redshank and sowthistles exactly where the gamestrip was 15 years before!

 

[glasshouse]

Agree with you about the calorie measurement. Organic farming though, does seem to rely more on cultivations which require energy and degrade soils.

And roundup doesnt?

 

[Scholsey]

And roundup doesnt?

would say roundup is proven to be far less of a issue than insecticides/fungicides/residual herbicides and dressings.

 

[glasshouse]

got a beet field with a major fathen problem, but also redshank and sowthistles exactly where the gamestrip was 15 years before!

I had a county high clearance tractor on rowcrops with a 7 metre beet surfer topper to go through cereals and spuds for thistles wild oats etc late on

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

And roundup doesnt?

No roundup doesn't rely on cultivations.

 

[glasshouse]

No roundup doesn't rely on cultivations.

Cultivations dont degrade the soil
Covering it with roundup etc does

 

[jondear]

Topical add below for round up !
Never miss a trick!

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I think everyone should ask themselves what they would be doing if there was no aid payments including conversion grants

 

[glasshouse]

Our wonderful soils are not natural, they have been created by centuries of ploughing in muck etc, not roundup

 

[betweenthelines]

So your saying that before Prince Charles took control of Sandringham from Prince Philip the whole estate was sprayed with round up. Tenants farms as well as inhand land?
Wow you do like to make big accusations about things. Yesterday you accused a fallen stock company of polluting a river in Cornwall based on zero evidence!

I quoted what he said not what I said. That was his opinion, which we are all allowed to have , whether you like it or not.

I think your a clipboard wielding cult.

Dam this auto correct

Your cult is that you believe that sprays and ABs are fantastic and should be used.
Fact is these myths that you have been "sold" are based on flawed science. The cult you believe in is getting smaller and smaller.

I was referring to Highgrove in the 1980's

I didn't accuse anyone of anything yesterday, I just pointed out one of the other businesses in the area around the Saputto site-there's also a number of farms and a vehicle repairer. Please do not add to/make up things about other people's posts.

No, I don't believe sprays and AB's are "fantastic" I think they are over used-especially Roundup to "ripen" cereals and AB's in human medicine-but are hugely beneficial to crops, man and animals when used appropriately.

As I have said before, I don't have a problem with farmers growing "organic" food or people buying it. it's up to the individual. Whether it's any better for the planet, animals or humans is another debate. My objection is to the insinuation from the Organic lobby that all non believers sorry, conventional farming methods are somehow "wrong"

I like brown sauce on a bacon sarnie, but I don't berate people or say they in the hands of evil multi national big businesses if they like red sauce.

 

[Scholsey]

I think everyone should ask themselves what they would be doing if there was no aid payments including conversion grants

Get £5500 a year environment scheme money but never had a penny conversion money as converted too quick to claim it so would still be doing the same as i am with just under 1% less turnover.

 

[betweenthelines]

Surely at one time everyone was an organic farmer as there were no chemicals available, or sprayers to put them on and no manufactured fertiliser.

People survived, more or less, although obviously farmers weren't trying to feed 70 million people in the UK.

There is quite a big organic sector in the USA, not surprising when some of their normal "food standards" can be dire.

It should be borne in mind that part of the reason for "intensive" farming coming about was the drive to have healthier food for people to eat. I've heard it said that food poisoning from old style free range eggs (not the modern fenced grass paddock type, but hens wandering around the farmyard and laying wherever they wanted) was the driver to get hens housed 24/7.