Organic no till system ?

jonnyjon

Member
Interesting, the only seed treatments I've used this cropping year are for take all, was hoping not to use any in the future so that is encouraging
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
@Simon C how you can miraculously transform soil biology to replace latitude without coming a cropper in your first year?

@Clive it could work. chameleon drill would do it.
Inter row hoeing does work to a point but isn’t any kind of silver bullet, Still a lot of weeds left behind. It is something we have tried and will probably do on a bigger scale in the future. It won’t work with residue very well though which many seem to be overlooking, we farm next to John Pawsey and quite a lot of cultivation goes into his fields, the chameleon or any other hoe would struggle in our cover crop or stripper header fields.
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
@Simon C how you can miraculously transform soil biology to replace latitude without coming a cropper in your first year?

@Clive it could work. chameleon drill would do it.
you stop growing second wheats until your soil is good enough to grow them - I'm just staring to look at 2nd cereals again after 10 yrs no till using a cover crop "break" - there is very little need for a rotation with 2nd cereals in it anyway really, you're only chasing gross output because of fc structure usually

Don't think the Chameleon is the right tool for it - my aim would be not to destroy the under story crop but just keep it at low level, a hoe won't go through the thickness of nutrient crop Im thinking of. small strimmer heads is what I need in cowls that protect crop and wildlife either mounted and steered like a hoe or individual "small robots"
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Inter row hoeing does work to a point but isn’t any kind of silver bullet, Still a lot of weeds left behind. It is something we have tried and will probably do on a bigger scale in the future. It won’t work with residue very well though which many seem to be overlooking, we farm next to John Pawsey and quite a lot of cultivation goes into his fields, the chameleon or any other hoe would struggle in our cover crop or stripper header fields.
those "weeds" are diversity, intercropping, companion crops, a move away from mono cropping which many think of as the holy grail ......... why remove them ? that's how we have been conditioned to think but is it correct ?

How about instead we design the weed population to complement the cash crop, supplying N etc and then just find a way to hold them at a level where they don't compete ?
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
I intend to, it will be hss from now on, fed up having to special order undressed seed and pay a ransom for it, being told they won't guarantee it if it's not dressed. A load of sh1te
the single simplest input to stop using is seed dressing - get the seed tested and have a proper rotation and you're not taking any risks doing so
 
those "weeds" are diversity, intercropping, companion crops, a move away from mono cropping which many think of as the holy grail ......... why remove them ? that's how we have been conditioned to think but is it correct ?

How about instead we design the weed population to complement the cash crop, supplying N etc and then just find a way to hold them at a level where they don't compete ?
Would a taller wheat variety work? If it grows say 4 foot tall it would be above any weeds and you could just run the combine high enough to cut the wheat and leave the weeds were they are?
Depending on what weeds grow in it of course. Wouldn't work if the weeds grow as tall.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
those "weeds" are diversity, intercropping, companion crops, a move away from mono cropping which many think of as the holy grail ......... why remove them ? that's how we have been conditioned to think but is it correct ?

How about instead we design the weed population to complement the cash crop, supplying N etc and then just find a way to hold them at a level where they don't compete ?
Absolutely, but that is much easier said than done. I don’t know how you design charlock out of a soil...!
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Would a taller wheat variety work? If it grows say 4 foot tall it would be above any weeds and you could just run the combine high enough to cut the wheat and leave the weeds were they are?
Depending on what weeds grow in it of course. Wouldn't work if the weeds grow as tall.
its not just about the mechanics of harvest - you don't want competition with the cash crop for light etc or you will loose yield. I also believe that constant pruning stimulates plants to make soil biology work harder, there has been some really interesting research in this area
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Absolutely, but that is much easier said than done. I don’t know how you design charlock out of a soil...!
you can't but you can keep it at a level where its not a problem maybe ?? I think if you can engineer a good enough understory full of species that are beneficial it might maybe suppress a lot of the stuff you don't want
 

Richard III

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
CW5 Cheshire
you can't but you can keep it at a level where its not a problem maybe ?? I think if you can engineer a good enough understory full of species that are beneficial it might maybe suppress a lot of the stuff you don't want
I like your idea, I think there may be an issue with establishing a cash crop though. For example, wheat drilled into living clover really struggles to get going initially. If you could put nutrition in the seed trench, this might help some and your strimming machine could be used just above ground level at drilling time to help I suppose.
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
I like your idea, I think there may be an issue with establishing a cash crop though. For example, wheat drilled into living clover really struggles to get going initially. If you could put nutrition in the seed trench, this might help some and your strimming machine could be used just above ground level at drilling time to help I suppose.
Nutrition would have to be organic though which complicates ! maybe if it was grazed hard over winter on mown very short that would help
 

Boydvalley

Member
Location
Bath
One of the problems of using legumes to build fertility is that you have to kill them or use an annual legume to release the nitrogen they have built up. Clover will just use its nitrogen and become very competitive not releasing any to the cash crop. A well rooted cover crop will soak up most of the available nutrients before the crop, you are basically growing 2 crops until harvest and yields will be very low however hard you hit the companion crop.
Mowing and hoeing are fine but weather conditions will mean once every few years it won’t go right and the seed bank will get topped up again.
I’ve often thought Organic production with one permitted application of glyphosate per year would be a very sustainable ecologically friendly production system. Doesn’t help the OP though. Interesting thread
 
the single simplest input to stop using is seed dressing - get the seed tested and have a proper rotation and you're not taking any risks doing so
The problem is the proper rotation has just gone out the window. There are not enough break crop alternatives to losing OSr so I am forced to second cereals to lower break area to 33%
 

JD6920s

Member
Location
Shropshire
you stop growing second wheats until your soil is good enough to grow them - I'm just staring to look at 2nd cereals again after 10 yrs no till using a cover crop "break" - there is very little need for a rotation with 2nd cereals in it anyway really, you're only chasing gross output because of fc structure usually

Don't think the Chameleon is the right tool for it - my aim would be not to destroy the under story crop but just keep it at low level, a hoe won't go through the thickness of nutrient crop Im thinking of. small strimmer heads is what I need in cowls that protect crop and wildlife either mounted and steered like a hoe or individual "small robots"
Really, 10 years of no till already?
I didn’t realise you’d been at it that long!
 

AGCO reports sales increase of 43.5% compared to 2020 figures

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Written by Agriland Team from Agriland

The tractor manufacturer AGCO, which consists of brands such as Challenger, Fendt, GSI, Massey Ferguson and Valtra, reported its results for the second quarter ending June 30, 2021.

Net sales for the second quarter were approximately $2.9 billion, an increase of approximately 43.5% compared to the second quarter of 2020.

AEM

Reported net income was $3.73/share for the second quarter of 2021, and adjusted...
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