Organic. Uh, hang on.

[Pasty]

Now I'm all for organic. I buy organic milk from Riverford. I buy organic meat from Eversfield. I don't mind the premium. I also buy meat and other produce from non organic places once I know how they do things. I grow my own meat and veg.

But lately there seems to be a serious anti-meat message from the organic lot. I follow SA and Riverford on Twitter and it's all about going veggie these days. WTF? I thought they were into sustainable farming. Starting to seriously pee me off to be honest.

 

[Goweresque]

Where do they think they are going to get the nutrients to replace those removed by growing only veg? It can only come in a bag or out the back of an animal. The carbon cycle is a cycle for a reason.

 

[Pasty]

I don't know. The messages from Riverford re getting ever more extreme. Perhaps Guy Watson will explain how things will work if we all go veggie. Nothing at all against veggies by the way.

 

[JohnGalway]

Where do they think they are going to get the nutrients to replace those removed by growing only veg? It can only come in a bag or out the back of an animal. The carbon cycle is a cycle for a reason.

Cover crops?

 

[Wooly]

Organic meat, especially lamb, is one of the biggest cons and fully supported by the Soil Association !

They still use wormers, fly spray, heptavac, footvac and antibiotics and then make their customers believe the lamb is produced organically.

The only thing they don't do is fertilize and spray their fields..........simular to most extensive livestock farms!



I will now retire to put my tin hat on and wait for the bearded sandal wearing greenies to hurl abuse in my direction !

 

[Tim W]

I don't know. The messages from Riverford re getting ever more extreme. Perhaps Guy Watson will explain how things will work if we all go veggie. Nothing at all against veggies by the way.

If you were at the ORFC today you would have heard Guy say that he is in favour of people eating less meat in general but more ''good '' meat (grazed)
This seems quite sensible to me --- there is too much badly reared meat (cheap) consumed at a high environmental cost
45% (I think) of UK grain is destined as animal feed ---is that a good way to produce meat or a good use of our land?
@Pasty if you get the chance try to go to a day of the ORFC next year---I think you would like it and come away with some interesting things to think about

 

[Surgery]

Organic meat, especially lamb, is one of the biggest cons and fully supported by the Soil Association !

They still use wormers, fly spray, heptavac, footvac and antibiotics and then make their customers believe the lamb is produced organically.

The only thing they don't do is fertilize and spray their fields..........simular to most extensive livestock farms!



I will now retire to put my tin hat on and wait for the bearded sandal wearing greenies to hurl abuse in my direction !

Allowed to put on p & k in circumstances via slag etc

 

[czechmate]

Organic meat, especially lamb, is one of the biggest cons and fully supported by the Soil Association !

They still use wormers, fly spray, heptavac, footvac and antibiotics and then make their customers believe the lamb is produced organically.

The only thing they don't do is fertilize and spray their fields..........simular to most extensive livestock farms!



I will now retire to put my tin hat on and wait for the bearded sandal wearing greenies to hurl abuse in my direction !

Just taken over an organic farm here (of 18 years), admittedly with cattle, not sheep but he didn't worm, use anti biotics, vaccines.
Veggies seem to be becoming more popular, even here. Add to that, my own daughter is doing here best to be vegan, mind she is 17

 

[Pasty]

If you were at the ORFC today you would have heard Guy say that he is in favour of people eating less meat in general but more ''good '' meat (grazed)
This seems quite sensible to me --- there is too much badly reared meat (cheap) consumed at a high environmental cost
45% (I think) of UK grain is destined as animal feed ---is that a good way to produce meat or a good use of our land?
@Pasty if you get the chance try to go to a day of the ORFC next year---I think you would like it and come away with some interesting things to think about

I live less than 5 miles from Guy but don't know him personally. I think his brother does the meat / dairy side. I think we used to wrap bales for them many moons ago. Less meat is fine. We obviously need to get away from factory farmed meat. But I think the message has gone too far. To the point that the weekly message in the veg box is starting to wind me up something rotten.

 

[Tim W]

I live less than 5 miles from Guy but don't know him personally. I think his brother does the meat / dairy side. I think we used to wrap bales for them many moons ago. Less meat is fine. We obviously need to get away from factory farmed meat. But I think the message has gone too far. To the point that the weekly message in the veg box is starting to wind me up something rotten.

How much meat should we eat do you think? kg/human/week ---

 

[czechmate]

How much meat should we eat do you think? kg/human/week ---

10

 

[Flat 10]

IF you don't extensively graze sheep on many of our highlands what could that land produce that we could eat???!!!!
Growing maize/beet for GREEN energy on good arable land is far worse than eating meat IMHO.

 

[kfpben]

How much UK produced wheat is fit for milling though? Would people want it binned in a poor summer? I'd rather it was fed to livestock personally.

I do agree on the more grazing, cover crop route as a rule though. It is what I am trying to put into practice here.

 

[Tim W]

How much UK produced wheat is fit for milling though? Would people want it binned in a poor summer? I'd rather it was fed to livestock personally.

I do agree on the more grazing, cover crop route as a rule though. It is what I am trying to put into practice here.

Maybe the answer is to grow less poor quality grain and more veg (that we usually import) and have more grass in arable rotations?

 

[Pasty]

How much meat should we eat do you think? kg/human/week ---

Ask Guy first. He's the one saying we eat too much so he should have an idea of the correct amount. No?

Edit. I suspect his answer would be none but I can't believe that he would think that would work. I have massive respect for the bloke by the way. He's built a superb business which I am still a customer of.

 

[kfpben]

Maybe the answer is to grow less poor quality grain and more veg (that we usually import) and have more grass in arable rotations?

I agree, but it will take a long time.

How many arable farmers will be willing to get out of their Quadtracs and chase sheep/cattle about? Not many seem keen round here!

 

[Tim W]

Ask Guy first. He's the one saying we eat too much so he should have an idea of the correct amount. No?

Edit. I suspect his answer would be none but I can't believe that he would think that would work. I have massive respect for the bloke by the way. He's built a superb business which I am still a customer of.

His answer today was that he didn't know what would be the correct amount as you would have to consider both dietary requirements and environmental arguments (seems a sensible answer to me)
The dietician in the room (who was also a farmer raising beef/lamb and arable crops) said that from a health requirement angle the answer was from between 60 to 90g/day/adult
I think the average for the world is about 110g/day --- I would imagine my meat consumption is fairly high

 

[Tim W]

I agree, but it will take a long time.

How many arable farmers will be willing to get out of their Quadtracs and chase sheep/cattle about? Not many seem keen round here!

There are many ways to encourage changes to ag practice ---taxation, legislation and reward payments for instance
Share farming is the obvious way forward for these farmers with no animal skills

 

[spin cycle]

it's easy to critiscise growing corn to feed animals.....but if you think about it.....feed grain is grown on many soils that can't grow milling wheat.....if you grow veg you get gluts of fresh veg then nothing....if you grass the land and graze it you're using animals converting at fcr 5-1 or worse.....where as a 3t feed wheat /ac can be stored in a bin until ready then 'converted' to chicken at fcr 2-1 or better.....so that 3t wheat crop yields 1 1/2 t of chicken

 

[glasshouse]

New organic schemme says no animals.
Consumers have to complete the nutrient cycle themselves