OSR A Lazy Rooter?

[franklin]

Is it really? Every time I consider putting OSR straight into stubbles with a disc, or broadcasting it, or the old "twice over with discs and press then drill" I get told that it is a lazy rooter and I should put a tyne infront of it so it can get its roots down. I know it doesnt like sitting about in the wet, but is this lazy rooting thing a pile of pants, given the ability of tillage / forage brassicas to get through hard soil? nb I am saying hard soil rather than compacted.

I cant see how land with a 4t/ac + wheat crop on it can be anything but a good place to put a small seed, if we have managed to get it through 11 months of the year in good order.

 

[martian]

In order:
No
Yes
I quite agree

 

[Badshot]

Now I'm in two minds on this.
I established some cracking crops of rape direct with my kverneland drill.
Huge, massive growth by Christmas, but come harvest it never really performed anything like it should have.
Probably 30% down on my average.
Went back to a tine with broadcaster on it for planting and bingo, back to above average crop.
I will stick to having a tine under where the seed goes.
@static your mzuri should be ideal for it.

 

[SimonD]

Not sure if the photo uploaded but the left side is drilled without fert and the right with. Significant growth using some N & P vs no fert, I won't drill OSR without adding some again.

 

[franklin]

Now I'm in two minds on this.
I established some cracking crops of rape direct with my kverneland drill.
Huge, massive growth by Christmas, but come harvest it never really performed anything like it should have.
Probably 30% down on my average.
Went back to a tine with broadcaster on it for planting and bingo, back to above average crop.
I will stick to having a tine under where the seed goes.
@static your mzuri should be ideal for it.

Cant cover the acreage in time with 3m.

Just cant see how land we prepare for wheat can, in the space of one growing season, become so compacted a brassica root wont get down 12" or so. Have previously established rape straight into baled wheat land with a vaddy drill and we get zero moisture loss / less charlock / better kerb control. Would use existing tramlines to put NPK on infront of the drill. If anything, our heavy clays should heave and crack enough by late August to let us do this. Just every time I go to an OSR meeting I get this "lazy rooter" gibberish.

I dont think we have drilled winter OSR without any autumn fert in a long time now. 300kg of 10/20/20, then twice over with the vaddy at half seed rate? That would be firm and fine, and rolled well down.

Just very much dislike this view that, unless I apply everything possible / do every cultivation possible, then any failure is clearly down to my omission. Getting a big wheat crop cut dry, then straw baled, and 500ac of OSR drilled with a 3m drill is not feasible in a normal autumn now.

 

[Philip Hedeng]

I would argue that it has more to do with the resistance a OSR tap root encounters. It takes a lot of energy to penetrate a hard layer in the soil, which make it look slower and perhaps 'lazy'. In friable soil, that same energy would be used to grow longer roots, and larger canopy, in the same amount of time.

 

[mo!]

Cant cover the acreage in time with 3m.

Just cant see how land we prepare for wheat can, in the space of one growing season, become so compacted a brassica root wont get down 12" or so. Have previously established rape straight into baled wheat land with a vaddy drill and we get zero moisture loss / less charlock / better kerb control. Would use existing tramlines to put NPK on infront of the drill. If anything, our heavy clays should heave and crack enough by late August to let us do this. Just every time I go to an OSR meeting I get this "lazy rooter" gibberish.

I dont think we have drilled winter OSR without any autumn fert in a long time now. 300kg of 10/20/20, then twice over with the vaddy at half seed rate? That would be firm and fine, and rolled well down.

Just very much dislike this view that, unless I apply everything possible / do every cultivation possible, then any failure is clearly down to my omission. Getting a big wheat crop cut dry, then straw baled, and 500ac of OSR drilled with a 3m drill is not feasible in a normal autumn now.

We wouldn't dream of trying to put OSR in after wheat. Grow it after barley and then you have more time.

 

[britt]

View attachment 457720 Not sure if the photo uploaded but the left side is drilled without fert and the right with. Significant growth using some N & P vs no fert, I won't drill OSR without adding some again.

What form of fert did you use ?
I have been using Tech grade D A P, but couldn't get any last year as they said there was a problem with caking. They then tried to sell me some pi?? takingly expensive micro fert (various brands available at similar price, claiming that the zinc makes a big difference).
I bought a bag to try along side the bit of above that I had in store. There was no difference (visually) between the two, but it did show where I had run the hopper empty to swap products.
Drilled with Bigdisc into baled wheat stubble. Fert down spout with seed.

 

[franklin]

We wouldn't dream of trying to put OSR in after wheat. Grow it after barley and then you have more time.

Time to do some deep work because its a lazy rooter?
Or time to drill it shallow so it can grow a lot with its strong, penetrating roots?

 

[mo!]

Time to do some deep work because its a lazy rooter?
Or time to drill it shallow so it can grow a lot with its strong, penetrating roots?

Time to get the field cleared, hopefully get a few volunteers growing and roundupped and then some muck on. All while harvesting wheat, feeding cattle and being home for 6 to collect the kids from holiday club.

 

[willy]

Time to do some deep work because its a lazy rooter?
Or time to drill it shallow so it can grow a lot with its strong, penetrating roots?

Buy a dale seed hawk knife coulter, put fert just under the seed. Brilliant for osr. Oh and bY the way i have one to sell cheap.

 

[SimonD]

What form of fert did you use ?
I have been using Tech grade D A P, but couldn't get any last year as they said there was a problem with caking. They then tried to sell me some pi?? takingly expensive micro fert (various brands available at similar price, claiming that the zinc makes a big difference).
I bought a bag to try along side the bit of above that I had in store. There was no difference (visually) between the two, but it did show where I had run the hopper empty to swap products.
Drilled with Bigdisc into baled wheat stubble. Fert down spout with seed.

It was some pfocus, a mix of P & N, it definitely showed me the benefit of adding something when drilling. Because the fert tube delivers it "at point of use" I think you get the most out of it, especially as a disk suffers from a lack of mineralisation. It works for me and I believe it adds value, that's enough for me to continue with it.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Rape isn't a lazy rooter, far from it. I can't remember the exact figures but it is capable of exerting hundreds of kg/cm2 with it's roots provided that it isn't short of P. It does however give the impression of being lazy in cultivated soil because ( naturally) it's roots follow the course of least resistance.

 

[franklin]

Yes, surely if water can find the little cracks etc to go through then so can a plant root. Cant say that cultivating here really keeps my soil drier - just moves the wet from sitting on the top to sitting 8" from the top.

 

[mikep]

View attachment 457720 Not sure if the photo uploaded but the left side is drilled without fert and the right with. Significant growth using some N & P vs no fert, I won't drill OSR without adding some again.

I find this really counter intuitive. Logic seems to dictate a plant short of nutrients would go looking not sit there and feel sorry for itself whereas one with plentiful feed would just sit there.
There must be other factors affecting rooting apart from nutrition perhaps temperature or day length or both?

 

[SimonD]

A

I find this really counter intuitive. Logic seems to dictate a plant short of nutrients would go looking not sit there and feel sorry for itself whereas one with plentiful feed would just sit there.
There must be other factors affecting rooting apart from nutrition perhaps temperature or day length or both?

All I can say is that I drilled a trial area with Pfocus and left an area with zero fert so as to have a controlled area between the P trial and normal N areas. The trial agronomist has been keeping tabs of the area and this is the result.
After drilling the trial area was noticeably better and got away a lot quicker than the standard N area, it's convinced me that OSR benefits from some P at drilling, I'll still make sure there's some N though.

 

[franklin]

I think it's the nature of a plant to put roots downwards. I dont think feeding it makes it lazy. It's not like it uses all the N for leaf and none for root. All the best looking bits of rape here are on broadcast fert overlaps and when you pull them out of the ground the root is noticeably thicker and longer.

-edit-

Scratch that, have just read some Canadian stuff which says it's lack of moisture availability that promotes more extensive rooting. " Roots penetrate dry soil only slightly beyond available moisture supplies".

 

[Louis Mc]

A

All I can say is that I drilled a trial area with Pfocus and left an area with zero fert so as to have a controlled area between the P trial and normal N areas. The trial agronomist has been keeping tabs of the area and this is the result.
After drilling the trial area was noticeably better and got away a lot quicker than the standard N area, it's convinced me that OSR benefits from some P at drilling, I'll still make sure there's some N though.

Is there any difference now though?? Saw differences early on but then it evened out

 

[SimonD]

Is there any difference now though?? Saw differences early on but then it evened out

Even now but it certainly got away from the slug risk, also I ought to compare tap roots now.
I think of it as assurance, a lot is invested after a pre-em has been applied.

 

[Lincsman]

Many years ago when we combi-drilled after a haylock triple task, after first discing, a bit was missed due to low sun, this oval miss was sick and yellow all winter... cannot comment on its final yield though.
This is on below sea level clay not where you would dream of DD ing.