OSR A Lazy Rooter?

Discussion in 'Direct Drilling Crops & Agronomy' started by static, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. Clive

    Clive Staff Member

    Location:
    Lichfield
    18 yrs of deep (solo type) tillage pre osr and never really grew a good crop of the stuff 1.5t ave and never saw close to a 2t crop that I can recall

    Last 6 years of no tillage and 5 of the best crops I've ever grown, consistently close to 2t/ac

    There are other factors beyond tillage however so it's not black and white (as usual!) but In short tillage seems to makes little difference to OSR ability to root and clearly doesn't suit my land !

    Have a search back to my Mzuri rehab vs 750a split field osr trial from 2014/15 for a good comparison
     
  2. Cutlerstom

    Cutlerstom Member

    I like to think the same. However......
    Traditionally we have always subsoiled (or at least ran the subsoiler 6") ahead of osr, and then drilled. The subsoil legs run at an angle to the drilling, and to look at the crops you would think the seed had gone on during the subsoil process, as the biggest, strongest, fastest growing plants are the ones which got drilled directly over the legs of the subsoiler. This COULD be because it's lazy. Or just that it's easier, or even just that there is more N mineralised in the strip where the soil was moved. I don't know. Until I get the combine in, I won't know which yields better - subsoil then drill or DD. But I know where my money is....

    Having said that, any crop will find it quicker and easier getting roots down a loosened channel. Osr isn't any different, and the roots do a fantastic job of structuring the soil in between the subsoiler legs. I suspect (hope) that in years to come when the soil naturally improves, there would be no difference if you had put a leg through or not.
     
    static likes this.
  3. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    Ah, but will one outyield the other?
     
  4. SimonD

    SimonD Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    The crop that's still there..
     
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  5. Touché!
     
  6. SimonD

    SimonD Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    The trial plot hasn't come through winter very well. This year I'll still add N but look to Yara to get some P added, depending on availability vs cost. There was a noticeable difference in getting away, no denying that and the roots looked good but it just hasn't come through. Got to try these things though.
     
  7. York

    York Member

    Location:
    D-Berlin
    SimonD,
    why make it so complicated?
    Just use some 21-0-0-24 down the spout & off you go.
    then invest into "pimping" your OSR for winter hardiness, so it's not only looking good in the autumn but also in the spring. If OSR "looses" all leafs end of winter I'm not tooo bothered as long as the growing tip is deep green and we have good rooting.
    York-Th.
     
  8. SimonD

    SimonD Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    I don't think I'd trust the drill to mix 150kg fert to 3 kg WOSR, I'm not that lucky.

    Drill had a liquid system added for more than just fert applications. Thanks for the advice though.
     
  9. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    You only need to get osr through the winter. All this faffing around in the autumn only ensures a viable crop in February. Autumn canopy doesn't make a vast difference to yield but it does make you feel good when you're not spending all winter looking at it wondering what is going to kill it - winter, pigeons etc!

    Yes, I get that a good strong plant is much more likely to yield well - is no till really that bad for osr that it warrants all of this at establishment??

    Just saying ;)
     
  10. Richard III

    Richard III Member

    Location:
    CW5 Cheshire
    I mix DAP with the seed and then drill both together. Lack of mineralised nutrients in No Till can make the rape slow out of the starting blocks and very vulnerable to slugs. Like @SimonD , I won't drill rape without it now. It's not really an extra cost, as the amount can be deducted from fertilizer used elsewhere in the rotation and a bit of mixing is a lot quicker than getting a cultivator out.
     
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  11. SimonD

    SimonD Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    Assurance.​
     
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  12. AG Tim

    AG Tim New Member

    Does the salinity of the fert effect Slugs?
    We mixed slug pellets with seed, because the Slugs Start up to the crop at the bottom of the seed Band (would think they creep up through worm holes?!), and Show nearly no response to broadcasted pellets than.

    Worked fine, but its rough mixing it (the dust is pure poison).

    We also had some elemental sulfur into the seed Band (SUMO DTS type of fertilizer into the loosening strip). I liked that, cause most Other elements would be applied organic with slurry or compost. Only thing i miss would be boron, but i think i will find some Brands of elemental sulfur or DAP with implemented boron.

    Our experience is that osr wouldnt need that much of loose soil under the seed, but it Shows up differences in soil hardiness or maybe bulk density in the way the roots are growing. Sometimes straight downward with no crowns, sometimes only to the bottom of the loosening strip (nearly 10cm, We wont go deeper with it) and than branching or without a tap root, only growing sidewards (in most cases compacted soil or some kind of structural damage/stones).

    But placed fert is a important key.
     
  13. britt

    britt Member

    Location:
    leics/warks border
    I've been using tech grade DAP through the granule hopper, piped to the seed tube where it mixes with the seed, but can't get any this year.
    Are you using regular DAP ?
    I've not used the regular stuff before, would it be too course to go through the granule hopper ?
     
  14. York

    York Member

    Location:
    D-Berlin
    Simon,
    use liquid 21-0-0-24 which, when mixed with Urea is going to be a 15-0-0-6 or straight: 8-0-0-9.
    300l/ha is enough, that's 30 kg N/ha which will be good for Rape in the autumn.
    The benefitial of this liquids is:
    no nitrate
    Urea, in the 15-0-0-6 liquid will be converted in no time, as still nice warm temp. in August, to Ammonium. You will see a total different rape plant. We regularly have rape plants with leaf's like "elephant" ears. :)
    No growth regulator needed, also no fungi & etc..
    With liquid you can "pimp" up the liquid to your likes though, much easier than with dry fertiliser. So you know now my preference.
    York-Th.
     
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  15. willy

    willy Member

    Location:
    Rutland

    How about DAP in the drill hopper and the osr in the microgranular applicator?

    Will it rot the drill
     
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  16. Richard III

    Richard III Member

    Location:
    CW5 Cheshire
    I've no idea, sorry. I don't have a granule hopper, I just mix seed and regular DAP. I don't do too much at one time, incase it separates out in the hopper, but I don't have a huge acreage to cover, so it suits me.
     
    York likes this.
  17. Philip Hedeng

    Philip Hedeng Member

    Location:
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Hi again. From what I see in my no-till OSR field now, rape is not perhaps a lazy rooter, but it's vulnerable to compaction. It grew slowly in the autumn even as it was record warm. On clay it was attacked by slugs for quite a while and took some plants with them. Overall the establishment was poor there but I can't blame just the slugs, there was something else that seemed to lower germination on that soil. When winter arrived it was still fair for the most part. Then as winter ended and spring growth kicked in we saw an awful lot of plants dead. Some small and with thin stems but also large plants, all right next to living plants. Some had poor root systems with roots only along the slot, but there were others with a tap root as well. Some have regrown but a lot are dead.

    40 seeds/sq meter drilled (will have to go higher if I do it again).
    230 kg NPKS 17-5-10-5 +Mg+B in the slot with seed (will perhaps try MAP in the slot next time. AS mixed in sprayer with night application against slugs and compliment for more N is also considered.)
    4 kg Sluxx HP released right behind the slot
    A lot more Sluxx after emergence

    This field was not ready for this establishment method, at least with this drill that probably smeared the slot a bit because we used a lot of pressure through that 30-40 % clay and even if it was moist at drilling the weather turned a lot drier afterwards with soil becoming hard to penetrate.

    My theory now is that a lot of the plants tried to penetrate compacted layers or generally tight soil and that energy forced the plants upwards instead, exposing the growing tip to cold weather. The energy required for penetrating the soil also made it slower to grow above ground I guess.

    There's a vast difference to the crop depending on which part of the field I look at. Where soil is lighter the crops is at least OK to look at now, but on clay... I just have to see it through. Or close my eyes.

    Drill is a double disc box drill with gauge wheel at the side and a rubber closing wheel after.

    Companion crops is another hot topic; sacrificing something else than the cash crop to penetrate through the soil. Berseem clover is the best candidate? Going in after grass ley this year.
     
  18. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    I had a lot of corrosion of the blockage sensor wiring & seed head bolts by putting DAP in my Claydon's main hopper then osr seed in the Stocks rotor meter on the back. Not serious but the blockage sensors didn't work for a while this spring. I will buy a liquid tank for the front of the tractor and do it that way in future I think. Be aware that it takes a couple of extra seconds for the seed to get to the coulters this way as it has to drop down to the air jet then get all the way to the venturi then down the pipes. My first few fields done this way have a few skylark plots on the runs in!
     
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  19. britt

    britt Member

    Location:
    leics/warks border
    I had thought about it, but granule hopper speed has to be adjusted manually, so would mean a fixed speed once calibrated (fert rate not as crucial as seed rate)and there is the point made above about the delay.
     
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  20. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    The granule applicator should vary according to forward speed - it has a metering wheel drawing a signal from the controller in the cab. My Claydon has the Isocan controller which enables me to do variable rate from either the main hopper, the granule applicator or both.
     

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