Our N addiction

KMA

Member
Location
Dumfriesshire
Interesting but I don't think it's anything new that chucking loads of bag N on the land is not a good thing long term. It is a treadmill but how the hell do the arable boys get off it with returns as they are. The NVZs are largely in the less arable areas.

Reckon modern food production/research is far too reliant on big multinational corps with products to sell which has influenced our thinking. Need to take our noses away from the grindstone and be a LOT more sceptical of the 'ex spurts'. I was sceptical of a lot of the stuff taught in Ag college even when I was a teenager, nowadays (nearing 60) and growing nearly all my own veg I know a lot of it was plain wrong and/or too narrowly focused on the short term.

What's the old saying, "live every day as if it is your last, farm as if you'll live forever"
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
Interesting but I don't think it's anything new that chucking loads of bag N on the land is not a good thing long term. It is a treadmill but how the hell do the arable boys get off it with returns as they are. The NVZs are largely in the less arable areas.

Reckon modern food production/research is far too reliant on big multinational corps with products to sell which has influenced our thinking. Need to take our noses away from the grindstone and be a LOT more sceptical of the 'ex spurts'. I was sceptical of a lot of the stuff taught in Ag college even when I was a teenager, nowadays (nearing 60) and growing nearly all my own veg I know a lot of it was plain wrong and/or too narrowly focused on the short term.

What's the old saying, "live every day as if it is your last, farm as if you'll live forever"


err, just maybe, returns aren't that good because costs of production is so high with so many products coming out of a bag or a drum . . .
maybe if we weren't always trying to bash nature into submission margins could be higher ?
 

Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
This is a quote from @Cowabunga this week.


"
With up to 240 units per acre of N spread so far, in the same wheelings on undulating and steep land, I suggest that if my Vicon was out on spread pattern, the accumulation of applications over this lush growing season would be showing up by now
"

It illustrates how dairy farmers in particular are addicted to N fert just the same as a heroin addict.

Some high input dairy farms use phenomenal amounts of N.

Sustainable?
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
This is a quote from @Cowabunga this week.


"
With up to 240 units per acre of N spread so far, in the same wheelings on undulating and steep land, I suggest that if my Vicon was out on spread pattern, the accumulation of applications over this lush growing season would be showing up by now
"

It illustrates how dairy farmers in particular are addicted to N fert just the same as a heroin addict.

Some high input dairy farms use phenomenal amounts of N.

Sustainable?
Don't know ask cowbunga how long he has been doing it and if it pays
are we going to run out of N ?
 

Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Don't know ask cowbunga how long he has been doing it and if it pays
are we going to run out of N ?

Slavery paid for those who enslaved however was it ethical?

Carbon footprint?

Running out of N,never with the atmosphere being 80% ish.

We will run out of natural gas eventually and unless we find a super cheap source of energy required to convert gaseous N to nitrate then we are going to struggle with nitrate production.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Slavery paid for those who enslaved however was it ethical?

Carbon footprint?

Running out of N,never with the atmosphere being 80% ish.

We will run out of natural gas eventually and unless we find a super cheap source of energy required to convert gaseous N to nitrate then we are going to struggle with nitrate production.
we can talk about ethics when the price reflects till then is it profitable to put lots of N on land for milk production
 

Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
we can talk about ethics when the price reflects till then is it profitable to put lots of N on land for milk production

It's the whole dairy farm mentality,expand,expand,gobble up the neighbours,spread fert like there's no tomorrow then picket the local dairy with the new Fendt and plead poverty when we're awash with milk and the price drops a penny.

Progress?
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
we can talk about ethics when the price reflects till then is it profitable to put lots of N on land for milk production

profitable for how long ?

" fertiliser is good for the father, but bad for the sons " - or something like that
land stewardship & the legacy we leave behind should be a priority
if we cant be profitable without creating long term problems, maybe we should change our career . . .

just poking the hornets nest
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
It's the whole dairy farm mentality,expand,expand,gobble up the neighbours,spread fert like there's no tomorrow then picket the local dairy with the new Fendt and plead poverty when we're awash with milk and the price drops a penny.

Progress?

err, not only dairy
you could say the arable model is pretty similar . . .
 

KMA

Member
Location
Dumfriesshire
The big problem isn't just in Ag, everything is short term with no consideration for the future and as a society we're simply storing up a whole heap of pain and kicking the problems down the road hoping that if we ignore them they'll magically disappear. BUT at some point it will all come crashing down, possibly even within my lifetime.

Me? I'm glad I'm out of it all and can potter away experimenting with growing veg, keeping a few chooks and being as self sufficient as I can.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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