Overseeding clover- which one??

BSH

Member
BASE UK Member
I am looking to extend a one year ley with vetch and crimson clover by adding a clover int the the remaining grass inthe autumn. I am wondering wha teh best clover ins for effectively a one year extension of the ley. Should I go for a red clover or a large white clover? Any advice appreciated.
 

BSH

Member
BASE UK Member
Yes please, thinking of extending the mix i put in last autumn for one more year. The crimson clover and vetch obviously will only last one cut so looking at a clover option for a second season. Only has to last one more season, but think crimson may be too expensive. Is a short term red the way to go or what about a persian clover? Which is better to stich in??
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
What about Balansa? http://www.fixationclover.com/
Hurrells have some coming over at the moment, and I'll be giving some a trial for a similar 'project'. @Kevtherev might be able to sort you some.

If it's only for one year, whatever you decide to put in, it wants to be cheap IMO. If you don't fancy being a Balansa Guinea Pig, would Crimson or Persian stitch in next Spring? Or large leaved white if it's only for silage or cattle?
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Has anyone tried overseeding Vetch into a grass ley ?
yes, grew well, but after grazing, grew terribly. Sown w/vetch with h/rye, after maize, and that is brilliant. And am trying some 'trial plots' of spring vetch, with different types of clover.
Know anything about subterranean clover, or know where we could get a small amount of seed, to add to those trials. Doing the trials ourselves, working on the principle if you don't try some of these new, or uncommon crops, you don't know what they will do.
With the fert price, its similar to gold dust, and the 'experts' raving about legumes, high rates of legumes, in swards, not only help N, but also raise the protein of good silage.
Our leys, with a lot of clover in them, are definitely greener, and ahead of leys without so much, clover hasn't really stopped growing here, this winter, unusually.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
yes, grew well, but after grazing, grew terribly. Sown w/vetch with h/rye, after maize, and that is brilliant. And am trying some 'trial plots' of spring vetch, with different types of clover.
Know anything about subterranean clover, or know where we could get a small amount of seed, to add to those trials. Doing the trials ourselves, working on the principle if you don't try some of these new, or uncommon crops, you don't know what they will do.
With the fert price, its similar to gold dust, and the 'experts' raving about legumes, high rates of legumes, in swards, not only help N, but also raise the protein of good silage.
Our leys, with a lot of clover in them, are definitely greener, and ahead of leys without so much, clover hasn't really stopped growing here, this winter, unusually.
I'm drilling a 3 way mix of Red, White Clover and Chicory , may add some Vetch , I think Vetch is sensative to when it's cut like Crimson Clover
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
we will be trialling the following
grazing lucerne
spring vetch
aslike
crimson
beerseen
sweet clover
we have balsana clover overseeded in swards already
chicory and plantain grows well here, chicory too well perhaps.
plot sown pure, and then some 'pick and mix'.
subterranean clover looks interesting, good N fixing, thick growth to help smother out weeds, and with all herbs/clover mixes, weeds are the problem. Although with multi cut, fresh dock leaf's are 25% protein, or so l am told, so as long as they don't seed, not that much of a problem.
Plantain, on a very dry hill, has, in one year, pretty well reseeded itself, and taken over, not a problem, a dry spell last summer f####d the rye grass, yr 2 of a 4/5 year ley, and the cows love it
IMG_0574[1].JPG
IMG_0576[1].JPG
the 2 pics, are about 10 yds apart, 1st is on 'top' of the steep bank, the 2nd on the bank itself, the bank is very exposed to weather, not a lot between it, and the Bristol Channel.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
we will be trialling the following
grazing lucerne
spring vetch
aslike
crimson
beerseen
sweet clover
we have balsana clover overseeded in swards already
chicory and plantain grows well here, chicory too well perhaps.
plot sown pure, and then some 'pick and mix'.
subterranean clover looks interesting, good N fixing, thick growth to help smother out weeds, and with all herbs/clover mixes, weeds are the problem. Although with multi cut, fresh dock leaf's are 25% protein, or so l am told, so as long as they don't seed, not that much of a problem.
Plantain, on a very dry hill, has, in one year, pretty well reseeded itself, and taken over, not a problem, a dry spell last summer f####d the rye grass, yr 2 of a 4/5 year ley, and the cows love itView attachment 1026468View attachment 1026469the 2 pics, are about 10 yds apart, 1st is on 'top' of the steep bank, the 2nd on the bank itself, the bank is very exposed to weather, not a lot between it, and the Bristol Channel.
What drill do you use , does the Clover and Vetch seed seperate out in the hopper
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
What drill do you use , does the Clover and Vetch seed seperate out in the hopper
vaaderstat, 2nd hand, amazing bit of kit.
but, as you say, seed size becomes a problem. We overseeded vetch into grass, don't think we used enough seed though, cows killed it off by grazing.
h/rye and vetch, we drilled together, that mix is very successful, although growing between maize, timing is very tight, we may try w/wold and vetch, this year, which would leave a bigger window, undecided.
The chicory and plantain, seems to be pretty hardy seed, and appears to grow easily either drilled, or broadcast. For us, its all 'new' systems, trial and error.

But farming is changing, both from the environmental aspect, and the input cost aspect, so what we have considered as 'normal', needs to be re-assessed. If, by using 'new' methods/crops, we can scale back on those inputs, that has got to be good. Going forward, l feel we are moving from ag 'surplus' to a small 'insufficient', we see that with rising prices, even before putrid started buggering about. But there will be a cap, on how high prices will rise, and that is what the housewife/person, can afford to pay.

I have long held the view that to increase profit, we need to cut back on input costs, and that is not easy. We have to look at, new crops, ideas and systems, while some will say increasing tech will be the answer, its bloody expensive, and probably more for larger concerns. So, we are looking at the 'new, crops. Legumes are obviously the biggest potential, and that's why we are trialling them.
Small leaf clover, over sown with corn, looks another possibility.
 
vaaderstat, 2nd hand, amazing bit of kit.
but, as you say, seed size becomes a problem. We overseeded vetch into grass, don't think we used enough seed though, cows killed it off by grazing.
h/rye and vetch, we drilled together, that mix is very successful, although growing between maize, timing is very tight, we may try w/wold and vetch, this year, which would leave a bigger window, undecided.
The chicory and plantain, seems to be pretty hardy seed, and appears to grow easily either drilled, or broadcast. For us, its all 'new' systems, trial and error.

But farming is changing, both from the environmental aspect, and the input cost aspect, so what we have considered as 'normal', needs to be re-assessed. If, by using 'new' methods/crops, we can scale back on those inputs, that has got to be good. Going forward, l feel we are moving from ag 'surplus' to a small 'insufficient', we see that with rising prices, even before putrid started buggering about. But there will be a cap, on how high prices will rise, and that is what the housewife/person, can afford to pay.

I have long held the view that to increase profit, we need to cut back on input costs, and that is not easy. We have to look at, new crops, ideas and systems, while some will say increasing tech will be the answer, its bloody expensive, and probably more for larger concerns. So, we are looking at the 'new, crops. Legumes are obviously the biggest potential, and that's why we are trialling them.
Small leaf clover, over sown with corn, looks another possibility.
Mix the seed with sawdust to bulk it out😉
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
The drills are accurate to 1 kg , but Vetch is a large seed against Chicory, we don't put slug pellets in with small seeds due to separating in the hopper, may try putting 2 kg of ryegrass with it that may bind the seed better

You should have got a Simtech.;) Seed stays mixed and the foam rollers mean it’s metered accurately regardless of a mix of sizes.👍

I suspect all box drills would be similar at seed not separating though?
 
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