Overseeding: fertiliser or no?

[Jdunn55]

Hi all, I've got 26 acres of silage ground to be over seeded. It will be going in hybrid ryegrass and red clover (80% grass and 20% clover - it's all here so apologies to the grass salesmen on here!) hopefully the contractor will be here in the next couple of days to direct drill it.
I've gone over the fields atleast twice with the quantock grass harrow to hopefully help his drill and the grass seed.
It will hopefully be limed in 2-3 weeks time.

My question is do I spread some fertiliser on it and if so how much? And what about dung on afterwards as have plenty of that here? Or will I end up growing the grass that's already there and smothering the grass and clover seed?

Ideally I would like to take another cut off it but I'm aware that's dependant on the weather

Thanks

 

[Jdunn55]

Most of it is currently in permanent pasture that hadn't been reseeded in my lifetime (I'm 19)...

 

[Short_Angus]

Don't put on any fertiliser or dung, it will give the old grass a boost and choke out your new seeds. Get your lime on asap.

I've had good success with fertiliser coated seed.

 

[Jdunn55]

Don't put on any fertiliser or dung, it will give the old grass a boost and choke out your new seeds. Get your lime on asap.

I've had good success with fertiliser coated seed.

Thanks that's what I thought too, but was hoping different!

 

[Jdunn55]

Don't put on any fertiliser or dung, it will give the old grass a boost and choke out your new seeds. Get your lime on asap.

I've had good success with fertiliser coated seed.

Never heard of fertiliser coated seeds, is it an extra charge that most will be able to do? How much extra are you talking?

 

[Robert K]

@Cab-over Pete will recommend some decent lime

 

[deleted user 837354]

Soil test first or you have no clue where you are.

 

[milkloss]

ideally I would, glypho, lime, dung, harrow, reseed in that order. Any weeds present? I ask because RC gives no opportunity for control.

 

[hally]

Never heard of fertiliser coated seeds, is it an extra charge that most will be able to do? How much extra are you talking?

Most big companies offer this, just costs 2 or 3 quid an acre but makes a huge difference in an overseeding situation imo, the seed on the right was coated

 

[Cab-over Pete]

@Cab-over Pete will recommend some decent lime

Thank you, but as the OP is in Cornwall I don’t really know of a local source I’m afraid.

 

[Jdunn55]

Soil test first or you have no clue where you are.

That's why I've got to wait for a couple of weeks as the woman who does it for us (for free and shes brilliant so wouldn't want to upset her!) Is on holiday next week and then by the time we get the results back etc

I can pretty much guarantee it will be low 5's though and I would bet the entire farm on the fact it's under 6...

 

[Jdunn55]

@Cab-over Pete will recommend some decent lime

Thank you, but as the OP is in Cornwall I don’t really know of a local source I’m afraid.

Thanks to both of you but we have the lime and someone to spread it all sorted

Theres pretty much only one guy that does it down here (T.C James) and he does a good job

 

[Jdunn55]

ideally I would, glypho, lime, dung, harrow, reseed in that order. Any weeds present? I ask because RC gives no opportunity for control.

We havent sprayed it as hoping to keep the costs down as this is only a temporary fix as itll be going into maize in 2023 so just want to up the yields a bit by then and help build fertility for the maize (hence the red clover) which is why we havent gone for a full reseed, plus it's a bit of a test to see how we get on with overseeding as we have never done any before!

Theres very very few weeds in these fields as they're only used for cutting so docks never get a chance to go to seed - about the only fields on the farm that havent got any...

 

[Jdunn55]

Most big companies offer this, just costs 2 or 3 quid an acre but makes a huge difference in an overseeding situation imo, the seed on the right was coated

Thanks and I wish I had known before hand - never mind theres always next time!

 

[neilo]

That's why I've got to wait for a couple of weeks as the woman who does it for us (for free and shes brilliant so wouldn't want to upset her!) Is on holiday next week and then by the time we get the results back etc

I can pretty much guarantee it will be low 5's though and I would bet the entire farm on the fact it's under 6...

Tbh I think you’ll be wasting your time trying to DD into an old thatch, particularly so if your pH is likely to be that low. I would suggest you get the fundamentals right before you spend money on DD contractors and seed.
If you’ve already bought the seed, you really would be better off leaving it in the shed until at least you pH was sorted.

 

[Jdunn55]

Tbh I think you’ll be wasting your time trying to DD into an old thatch, particularly so if your pH is likely to be that low. I would suggest you get the fundamentals right before you spend money on DD contractors and seed.
If you’ve already bought the seed, you really would be better off leaving it in the shed until at least you pH was sorted.

I'm not too worried about the thatch as such as I've done a fairly good job in creating bare soil with he grass harrow so it should be ok from that aspect.

I was hoping that the seed should be able to germinate and then when the lime is spread it can really get going or does it not work like that? IRS just been cut so there wouldn't really be another opportunity to do it tbh

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'm not too worried about the thatch as such as I've done a fairly good job in creating bare soil with he grass harrow so it should be ok from that aspect.

I was hoping that the seed should be able to germinate and then when the lime is spread it can really get going or does it not work like that? IRS just been cut so there wouldn't really be another opportunity to do it tbh

Should work well.

I wouldn't apply any fert until your new plants are well established and the lime has begun to work, because applying an acid-based product to low pH soil is really only going to assist the species that can handle acidity (which you've gone to lengths to remove!).

Would be interesting to see what your soil test S and Mo are looking like

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Is there a reason you can't lime now or are you waiting for the test

 

[YELROM]

Is there a reason you can't lime now or are you waiting for the test

You would of thought the lime contractor could easily test the ph

 

[YELROM]

Is there a reason you can't lime now or are you waiting for the test

You would of thought the lime contractor could easily test the ph