Pasteurella Pneumonia in lambs

[SteveHants]

The first injection does cause antibodies but also primes the system for when the second injection is administered to provide a higher level of protection. So we were taught in immunology 25 years ago...

But if the immune system is able to produce antibodies once, why does it need to be made to do it again with exactly the same dose of exactly the same thing two weeks later?

I can see why annual boosters might be necessary.

I could be wrong, and I'll have a look at some point. I'm also pretty sure my vet described double injections in this way as an insurance policy.....

 

[Woolless]

Sorry for casting aspersions
The way Lord North (gelded) has just won the Prince of Wales's Stakes, I reckon castration should be made mandatory for MP's - it certainly concentrated his mind.

Not so great for stud value, though!

 

[Woolless]

But if the immune system is able to produce antibodies once, why does it need to be made to do it again with exactly the same dose of exactly the same thing two weeks later?

I can see why annual boosters might be necessary.

I could be wrong, and I'll have a look at some point. I'm also pretty sure my vet described double injections in this way as an insurance policy.....

Ovivac primary dose is two injections four weeks apart. You may have a point, though.

 

[Farmer Fin]

But if the immune system is able to produce antibodies once, why does it need to be made to do it again with exactly the same dose of exactly the same thing two weeks later?

I can see why annual boosters might be necessary.

I could be wrong, and I'll have a look at some point. I'm also pretty sure my vet described double injections in this way as an insurance policy.....

It will depend on the vaccine and the adjuvant in it. Certain diseases cause a better response than others. If you look at bravoxin 10 it has different lengths for different Clostridia, 6 or 12 months. Having been involved in some trial work for getting vaccines registered there are serial blood samples taken to ensure antibody levels. The standards are set by the EU do what proportion will need to have an acceptable antibody response and the pharma companies then need to have a schedule to cover this. If you look at USA they have lots more multivalent vaccines due to a lower threshold for proof of efficacy when getting a licence.
We also know that farmer compliance with vaccinating is low. How many vaccines get collected from the vet’s fridge in the morning then sit on the dash of the landi all day before being used.
As an aside this is one of the fears with corvid 19, that the vaccine may not work well due to corona viruses giving a poor immune response. Hence why we often get more than one cold a winter and no vaccine for it.

 

[Kyle4697]

Thanks for all the replies on this, I'm not just the biggest believer in vaccines anyway whether human or sheep but I guess you'll never know how much you might of lost with no vaccine, might of been a lot worse! I'm up in aberdeenshire and the weather weve had recently with it being so warm but humid isnt helping, everyone panting all day etc! Guess I just need to accept there will be losses and "you'll never save them all" as they say! Will definetly be looking into less expensive vaccines such as bravoxin etc. I gave my older lambs an injection of betamox just because I was moving them anyway. Was on the advice of my vet, might not make any difference but atleast I feel like I've done something!

 

[Farmer Fin]

Thanks for all the replies on this, I'm not just the biggest believer in vaccines anyway whether human or sheep but I guess you'll never know how much you might of lost with no vaccine, might of been a lot worse! I'm up in aberdeenshire and the weather weve had recently with it being so warm but humid isnt helping, everyone panting all day etc! Guess I just need to accept there will be losses and "you'll never save them all" as they say! Will definetly be looking into less expensive vaccines such as bravoxin etc. I gave my older lambs an injection of betamox just because I was moving them anyway. Was on the advice of my vet, might not make any difference but atleast I feel like I've done something!

Vaccines work. Best way to think of them is like an insurance policy. 9 years out of 10 they do feck all but that 1 year pays for the lot, slightly simplistic but the analogy works. Lambs will be under a lot of stress at the moment. Our grass has gone crazy with lots of carbohydrates for them to metabolise and probably a rising worm burden. I’m sure you are on top of things but make sure they aren’t struggling with worms and trace element deficiencies. Every sheep carries pasturella, it’s only when it overcomes their immune system that it kills them. The worst thing with drenching etc at the moment is the stress of gathering / handling always brings on a few more deaths.
Good luck.

 

[Kyle4697]

Vaccines work. Best way to think of them is like an insurance policy. 9 years out of 10 they do feck all but that 1 year pays for the lot, slightly simplistic but the analogy works. Lambs will be under a lot of stress at the moment. Our grass has gone crazy with lots of carbohydrates for them to metabolise and probably a rising worm burden. I’m sure you are on top of things but make sure they aren’t struggling with worms and trace element deficiencies. Every sheep carries pasturella, it’s only when it overcomes their immune system that it kills them. The worst thing with drenching etc at the moment is the stress of gathering / handling always brings on a few more deaths.
Good luck.

That's true I suppose! I only did the older lambs with betamox as the ewes there with come to a bucket of feed so wasn't stressful getting them in, the other ewes I bought a month or so a go with lambs at foot and there not quite so tame hence I left them where they were so they didn't have the stress of the quad etc in this heat! The vet is sending away samples for trace elements from the PM just to make sure everything is fine on that side.

 

[Highland Mule]

Is there the possibility of tick exposure in the lambs? I've experienced lamb losses at that age of lambs in previous years that were traced (by PM) back to tick borne fever from tick bites in the 1-4 week period between birth and application of Crovect. To control the risk, I now do Spot on at birth on all my lambs, and am working hard to get the background tick population down through eradication of bracken, ewe dipping etc..

 

[Kyle4697]

Slightly off topic but still to do with losing sheep, went round a field tonight that has 9 ewes and there lambs in it to find that I'm missing a ewe and a lamb, completely gone. One wire on the fence was up and the staple was out so guessing she maybe went through there, the field is in an estate so I've searched and searched with no signs of anything, shaked a bag which they all run to with no sign of her, just find it strange that shes completely left the flock. Is there any wild animal that would of chased her enough to fleg her completely away? The whole things suspicious in my eyes, just one thing after another?‍

 

[yellowbelly]

Any chance a 'two legged' may have been??

 

[Kyle4697]

Any chance a 'two legged' may have been??

My thoughts were that, but just thought they would take more than 1 ewe and her lamb, its cheviot ewes so there not exactly easy caught, not tame at all! Just cant figure out why she would leave completely