Pasture Cropping

[Tim May]

I don't honestly know I've never had to deal with an acre, but if you have enough people and time and are planning on feeding it straight to animals without processing then the easiest might be to cut the heads off and collect them, they will feed back to the animals ok or they would sprout ok too depending on your views. Just a initial thought.

 

[renewablejohn]

Thought I might have a dabble with this bearing in mind this is Lancashire and planting rice would be the best suggestion at the moment. Was thinking topping a field off and collecting the grass as I have an old russell flail which I use for topping. Then direct drill oats into the sward with an old 3 pt link fergy drill or would it need to be a proper direct drill. Open to suggestions including dont bother.

 

[Pasty]

Can't hurt to give it a go. It can always be grazed off if it's a flop.

 

[dontknowanything]

Don't bother

(Actually do, and post updates and photos here please)

 

[Andrew2]

I have a contact who has direct drilled maize into heavily grazed clover, will see what the final outcome is, and how the clover recovers another system in regenerative ranching/farming is to grow fodder crops in poor soils (after high density grazing what little forage is there) to bring up nutrients from deeper in the soils, then graze off the cover crops to provide manure and mulched plats to invigorate the soils, here is a link to a three day workshop on high density grazing, including pasture planting forage, and grass based genetics, this workshop was held in Florida - Johann and Jaime both have accents that might need to be listened to carefully. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLCeA6DzL9P4uYcD60vRixgK_gF4qMOwUs&v=HJinY9-FBic

 

[edwhite]

Hi, I have just picked up on this thread. We are doing a form of pasture cropping here on tired permanent pasture.
We drilled in oats, beans, wheat and vetch on the 1st of November as a trial and possibly some early grazing. It took really well, no slugs or crows as to them it was still a field of grass. The seed was untreated and no chemicals were used. It had a dose of compost at 8 Ton to acre in October.
It has come up well now at 6-7 inches. We were going to graze it all but are now leaving a swath to take to grain, just to see what happens.

 

[awkward]

I'm sure you are right. But we've got a very poor pasture field that grows a sad crop of grass, stalling completely in the summer. I'm planning on cutting a mix of maize/sorghum type plants in there next May/June after the first grazing and shutting it up until October/November time and mob grazing what's grown. Trying to combine C4s is optimistic in the best conditions, attempting it in a pasture cropping scenario would result in the men in white coats putting in an appearance and locking you up somewhere nice and safe...

how about Johnsongrass or is it the same as sorghum. I have seen a video of a trial that Joel Salatain tried where he grazed his field and 're grazed it some few days later so as to stunt the regrowth. then planted it not sure of the crop or outcome but you might find it on YouTube.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Looking to have a go at this myself this spring. But not for cropping - just for mob grazing.
My bad management of grass in the past has shown me if you graze tight enough for long enough the grass is VERY slow to recover. Lambing single hogs at grass it's hard to keep them tight enough without abusing the pasture so thinking I'm going to try and use this as a tool.
So for my cover crop im thinking maybe oats, peas, barley, vetch, red clover, fodder radish, forage rye. Would westerwolds replace the sorgum the Americans use or would it be too nitrogen hungry? Anything else?
Wanting to throw in as many different things as possible, partly because of reading/ hearing about the benefits of multi species diversity (1 video talked of results of 20+ species far out doing a 5 species crop). But also to see which species do well here in my situation.
Seeds will have to be readily available though as it's a small field and I shall only need small amounts of each. Bit of an experiment on a small scale but if you don't try you don't know.
The field is already being hammered with fattening lambs on ad lib grub.

@Great In Grass ?

 

[awkward]

Looking to have a go at this myself this spring. But not for cropping - just for mob grazing.
My bad management of grass in the past has shown me if you graze tight enough for long enough the grass is VERY slow to recover. Lambing single hogs at grass it's hard to keep them tight enough without abusing the pasture so thinking I'm going to try and use this as a tool.
So for my cover crop im thinking maybe oats, peas, barley, vetch, red clover, fodder radish, forage rye. Would westerwolds replace the sorgum the Americans use or would it be too nitrogen hungry? Anything else?
Wanting to throw in as many different things as possible, partly because of reading/ hearing about the benefits of multi species diversity (1 video talked of results of 20+ species far out doing a 5 species crop). But also to see which species do well here in my situation.
Seeds will have to be readily available though as it's a small field and I shall only need small amounts of each. Bit of an experiment on a small scale but if you don't try you don't know.
The field is already being hammered with fattening lambs on ad lib grub.

@Great In Grass ?

I'm thinking along the same lines as yourself . moregrass has a mix that I'm going to try as a topdress called a wildlife habitat mix. chicory and plantain are growing well here.

 

[hendrebc]

I'm sure you are right. But we've got a very poor pasture field that grows a sad crop of grass, stalling completely in the summer. I'm planning on cutting a mix of maize/sorghum type plants in there next May/June after the first grazing and shutting it up until October/November time and mob grazing what's grown. Trying to combine C4s is optimistic in the best conditions, attempting it in a pasture cropping scenario would result in the men in white coats putting in an appearance and locking you up somewhere nice and safe...

How did this do @martian ?
I tried some leftover spring barley seed into a really tired old grass ley last year. It came really well until it was about 6 inches tall then the slots dried up and the barley burnt off in the heat. I just grazed it hard before and after drilling until the barley was poking out of the slots and sh!t the gate. It failed bit I can't call the grass a success in that field either it was only ankle height when I cut it for silage in August 4 months later.
ill try again with oats this spring and see how it goes. I haven't given up on the idea. No one ever told me it wouldn't work when I tried it but now I think there is a chance it might. There's pictures of it on one of the DD pictures threads here somewhere.

 

[martian]

Tbh I never got round to it.
Looking forward to hearing how everyone gets on with it

 

[Karliboy]

How did this do @martian ?
I tried some leftover spring barley seed into a really tired old grass ley last year. It came really well until it was about 6 inches tall then the slots dried up and the barley burnt off in the heat. I just grazed it hard before and after drilling until the barley was poking out of the slots and sh!t the gate. It failed bit I can't call the grass a success in that field either it was only ankle height when I cut it for silage in August 4 months later.
ill try again with oats this spring and see how it goes. I haven't given up on the idea. No one ever told me it wouldn't work when I tried it but now I think there is a chance it might. There's pictures of it on one of the DD pictures threads here somewhere.

Where you planing on strip grazing this if it did work out?
Ive mentioned else where in another thread that I have a poor field, I was thinking of harrowing and mucking doing something different with.
Now I’m thinking of throwing some feed grade wheat and oats on from the local corn mill, maybe even some peas.
(Would bird feed peas chit do we think as I can get these from the mill too.)
When/if it gets a crop I’d then strip graze it hopefully.
would wheat and oats be ok to strip graze?

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Have you tried anything yet @Poorbuthappy ?

 

[hendrebc]

Where you planing on strip grazing this if it did work out?
Ive mentioned else where in another thread that I have a poor field, I was thinking of harrowing and mucking doing something different with.
Now I’m thinking of throwing some feed grade wheat and oats on from the local corn mill, maybe even some peas.
(Would bird feed peas chit do we think as I can get these from the mill too.)
When/if it gets a crop I’d then strip graze it hopefully.
would wheat and oats be ok to strip graze?

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Have you tried anything yet @Poorbuthappy ?

I was going to wholecrop it as a ready mixed barley and grass crop of it worked.
No reason you couldn't strip graze it though especially if you grazed it before it went to head. I'd be a bit worried about acidosis if stock weren't used to eating the heads.
@edwhite has put oat and vetch in a field in November for grazing. How did you get in with it?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Where you planing on strip grazing this if it did work out?
Ive mentioned else where in another thread that I have a poor field, I was thinking of harrowing and mucking doing something different with.
Now I’m thinking of throwing some feed grade wheat and oats on from the local corn mill, maybe even some peas.
(Would bird feed peas chit do we think as I can get these from the mill too.)
When/if it gets a crop I’d then strip graze it hopefully.
would wheat and oats be ok to strip graze?

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Have you tried anything yet @Poorbuthappy ?

Nothing yet. Planning on sowing a mix after lambing - probs mid May ish.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I was going to wholecrop it as a ready mixed barley and grass crop of it worked.
No reason you couldn't strip graze it though especially if you grazed it before it went to head. I'd be a bit worried about acidosis if stock weren't used to eating the heads.
@edwhite has put oat and vetch in a field in November for grazing. How did you get in with it?

did it with oats once.more by mistake than plan, strip grazed sheep on it as it went through the last green growth stages and on into ear as well ,
when its still green/soft there's not as much starch to cause acidosis /they gradually get used to it as it matures / there is fibre in with each mouthful even the ear , oats mature slower than wheat and barley so its not going to senesce as quick,therefore you have longer grazing at that older stage
Wheat might be a bit more tricky especially with cattle, and with barley sheep aren't so keen on the tickly aisles

 

[Karliboy]

Going to pick some wheat and oats up today to spin on and Harrow in as said above.
How many kg/ acre would we say to spin on out of interest ?

 

[hendrebc]

Going to pick some wheat and oats up today to spin on and Harrow in as said above.
How many kg/ acre would we say to spin on out of interest ?

I put 75kg an acre on when I tried drilling it. I have no idea if that was right or not but it's what I used to put when I drilled barley into cultivated ground.
@Kevtherev will have an idea

 

[Karliboy]

Cheers I was thinking about that amount

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Have ordered a variety of seed from G in G, plus got some oats here. Got to sort out the ewe lambs over the next week to clear the field, then get father in law here with the aitchinson.

In my googling, discovered Cotswold seeds have a wealth of info on their website.
https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/species/55/sainfoin
Sainfoin was just the last one I was looking at.
Might be teaching granny to suck eggs, but I thought it was worth sharing.
The species guide under 'knowledge' is very useful.

 

[Karliboy]

I’ve not bothered with the oats in the end so yesterday I just just harrowed and spun on 100kg of wheat on 1.5 acres and then harrowed it again Will see what happens I’m not overly concerned if it’s a complete failure For the sake of £15 and a little diesel. It’s more of just a wild experiment in a field that does bugger all.