Pasture-For-Life beef

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I love the irony of you writing that, with a name like Bury the Trash and with you being such a strong advocate of ploughing.....
stop talking like a townie, :sneaky:

we dont ever plough here in the sort of wet conditions cattle would need to outwintered in.

i am Strong advocate of what suits our system /makes the best go of our modest farm yes true.
 

The Ruminant

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Hertfordshire
stop talking like a townie, :sneaky:

we dont ever plough here in the sort of wet conditions cattle would need to outwintered in.

i am Strong advocate of what suits our system /makes the best go of our modest farm yes true.
Slightly tangentially, (and I asked this question of @PSQ on another thread but he avoided answering it), on the presumption that you do plough in dry conditions, what are your thoughts about mycorrhizal fungae and their importance, or otherwise, in agriculture?
 

PSQ

Member
Arable Farmer
Slightly tangentially, (and I asked this question of @PSQ on another thread but he avoided answering it), on the presumption that you do plough in dry conditions, what are your thoughts about mycorrhizal fungae and their importance, or otherwise, in agriculture?
Sorry, must have missed it.
What was the question?!
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Slightly tangentially, (and I asked this question of @PSQ on another thread but he avoided answering it), on the presumption that you do plough in dry conditions, what are your thoughts about mycorrhizal fungae and their importance, or otherwise, in agriculture?

'in the dry' is not it quite it either.

we would be ploughing with some sort of moisture 99 % of the time , just not the sort that wont support the half ton or so weight of a cow very well.

with regards to MF , its not something i give any thought to at all, if im honest as theres more important (and interesting imo) things like livestock nutrition,selling and fencing to think about .
 

The Ruminant

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Hertfordshire
'in the dry' is not it quite it either.

we would be ploughing with some sort of moisture 99 % of the time , just not the sort that wont support the half ton or so weight of a cow very well.

with regards to MF , its not something i give any thought to at all, if im honest as theres more important (and interesting imo) things like livestock nutrition,selling and fencing to think about .
I can accept that there might be more interesting things to think about (it’s all down to personal preferences, after all) but I would argue strongly that there is not an area of agriculture more important than mycorrhizal fungae.

It’s no surprise, and there’s no shame in the fact, that the majority of farmers don’t know anything about them. For example glomalin, one of the products of MF and an essential glue that holds our soils together, was only discovered in the 1990’s. It’s a relatively new science.

However, as I said, it is vitally important that we understand mycorrhizal fungae and do everything to ensure our soils are thriving in them. I think every agriculture student should be taught about them. I believe every farmer, if they don’t know about them, should go on a voyage of discovery. It’s fascinating and potentially very rewarding.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I can accept that there might be more interesting things to think about (it’s all down to personal preferences, after all) but I would argue strongly that there is not an area of agriculture more important than mycorrhizal fungae.

It’s no surprise, and there’s no shame in the fact, that the majority of farmers don’t know anything about them. For example glomalin, one of the products of MF and an essential glue that holds our soils together, was only discovered in the 1990’s. It’s a relatively new science.

However, as I said, it is vitally important that we understand mycorrhizal fungae and do everything to ensure our soils are thriving in them. I think every agriculture student should be taught about them. I believe every farmer, if they don’t know about them, should go on a voyage of discovery. It’s fascinating and potentially very rewarding.
well ...actually
i am interested , as i am all things to do with the farm its just not on the top of the list.
If i weren't at all interested i wouldnt comment.
off on a tangent yes.
another reason why i comment is when a poster comments about something that doesn't add up at all, like @NZDan 's one about possible grazing type on the Moors, im not denouncing the fact the method might be more productive but thats not the point, rights to roam,access, Common s, National Parks, Environmental schemes are.,thats not excuses ,just realities.
and Outdoor wintering will poach a lot of the soils in my part of the world to shreds rendering them poor for spring growth.,which is the best time of the year for it around here also.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
well ...actually
i am interested , as i am all things to do with the farm its just not on the top of the list.
If i weren't at all interested i wouldnt comment.
off on a tangent yes.
another reason why i comment is when a poster comments about something that doesn't add up at all, like @NZDan 's one about possible grazing type on the Moors, im not denouncing the fact the method might be more productive but thats not the point, rights to roam,access, Common s, National Parks, Environmental schemes are.,thats not excuses ,just realities.
and Outdoor wintering will poach a lot of the soils in my part of the world to shreds rendering them poor for spring growth.,which is the best time of the year for it around here also.

Poaching damage will be little more than superficial if moves are frequent enough. If you read @Kiwi Pete ‘s posts then the moves necessary might be several times a day? Certainly possible, but bugger that for a game of soldiers!

I’ve no doubt you could drastically improve a lot of upland pastures by following such a regime, but a lot of that ground in the UK has footpaths, deer, etc running all over it, rendering it difficult, if not impossible to implement.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Poaching damage will be little more than superficial if moves are frequent enough. If you read @Kiwi Pete ‘s posts then the moves necessary might be several times a day? Certainly possible, but bugger that for a game of soldiers!

I’ve no doubt you could drastically improve a lot of upland pastures by following such a regime, but a lot of that ground in the UK has footpaths, deer, etc running all over it, rendering it difficult, if not impossible to implement.
i dont need to read a post that tells me that currently on the majority of our ground we would need to have them moving pretty rapidly even but even with constant moving the damage would be done to the top of the soil structure , plus like you say the tie would be too much, maybe ok for a few yrs novelty but would take its toll in a longerterm.

i dont like to see stock stood in mud either. especially if they are lambing.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
i dont need to read a post that tells me that currently on the majority of our ground we would need to have them moving pretty rapidly even but even with constant moving the damage would be done to the top of the soil structure , plus like you say the tie would be too much, maybe ok for a few yrs novelty but would take its toll in a longerterm.

i dont like to see stock stood in mud either. especially if they are lambing.

Lambing is normally in late March/April though. Only you guys down in the tropics would think of lambing outside earlier...;)
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Lambing is normally in late March/April though. Only you guys down in the tropics would think of lambing outside earlier...;)
HMM,
its not the cold its the wet, and gambling on having a dry one is likeplaying R roulette ,well that s been my long term experience anyway.
off course it doesn't have to be special accommodation either , pole barns will do.fine just dry underfoot..

in our part of the World , like the old blokes said its May you have to get too even in these days of changeABLE weather patterns.

i accept might be different on Salisbury plain......
 

Crex

Member
Location
Innse Gall, Alba
I can accept that there might be more interesting things to think about (it’s all down to personal preferences, after all) but I would argue strongly that there is not an area of agriculture more important than mycorrhizal fungae.

It’s no surprise, and there’s no shame in the fact, that the majority of farmers don’t know anything about them. For example glomalin, one of the products of MF and an essential glue that holds our soils together, was only discovered in the 1990’s. It’s a relatively new science.

However, as I said, it is vitally important that we understand mycorrhizal fungae and do everything to ensure our soils are thriving in them. I think every agriculture student should be taught about them. I believe every farmer, if they don’t know about them, should go on a voyage of discovery. It’s fascinating and potentially very rewarding.
Where's a good place to start?
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
how bout Wilko?
Wilko Best Rootgrow Mycorrhizal Fungi 150g
0330967
£3.25

£ 21.67 per 1 KG

4.8
(10)


  • Increases root capacity up to 700 times in just a few months
  • For vigorous growth, better drought tolerance and more abundant flowers and fruit
  • Easy to use and one treatment lasts forever
Empathy Rootgrow 150g contains Mycorrhizal Fungi, a totally natural and friendly fungi that colonises and develops a considerably more efficient and extensive secondary root system than the plant's own. For many plants this is usually within 4 weeks and..



like wow 700 times in just ' a few 'months' 😂
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Poaching damage will be little more than superficial if moves are frequent enough. If you read @Kiwi Pete ‘s posts then the moves necessary m
if you also read his posts note he doesnt keep stock all year round,they come and then they totally go.
bit of a different ball game that is to say the least.

im happy with the flock ive bred since 2001 ,its abreeding flock used to the place and here 24/7 365 same as me,
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Poaching damage will be little more than superficial if moves are frequent enough. If you read @Kiwi Pete ‘s posts then the moves necessary might be several times a day? Certainly possible, but bugger that for a game of soldiers!

I’ve no doubt you could drastically improve a lot of upland pastures by following such a regime, but a lot of that ground in the UK has footpaths, deer, etc running all over it, rendering it difficult, if not impossible to implement.
Easier with timers handling much of it.

I wouldn't go back to "farming in the dark" any more than I'd go back to leaving stock in one place long enough to make a mess... hence a bit of investment is required if you want to have the good outcomes and the lifestyle.
Lots of tiny paddocks is good for us, not so good if we suddenly decided we wanted to put 20ha into wheats and beets, so it really comes down to "what we want".
I don't want to slowly go broke.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Easier with timers handling much of it.

I wouldn't go back to "farming in the dark" any more than I'd go back to leaving stock in one place long enough to make a mess... hence a bit of investment is required if you want to have the good outcomes and the lifestyle.
Lots of tiny paddocks is good for us, not so good if we suddenly decided we wanted to put 20ha into wheats and beets, so it really comes down to "what we want".
I don't want to slowly go broke.
that wont happen surely ,because you have the rent from your houses coming in.

same as my best mate,'oh i dont need to work we can live off our 2 rental properties,' (they get about 1k a month x 2.

i then reply well them do you?oh well he says i get bored doing nothing :oops::ROFLMAO:
 

The Ruminant

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Hertfordshire
Where's a good place to start?
That’s a tricky question, as once you start studying books about soil and regenerative agriculture practices, information about MF crops up everywhere.

A very good book I read a while ago was called Mycorrhizal Planet by Michael Philips.

Once you learn about MF, and understand how they live in the soil and just how beneficial they are, it changes the way you look at your land and consequently changes the way you farm. That’s my experience, anyway.
 
well ...actually
i am interested , as i am all things to do with the farm its just not on the top of the list.
If i weren't at all interested i wouldnt comment.
off on a tangent yes.
another reason why i comment is when a poster comments about something that doesn't add up at all, like @NZDan 's one about possible grazing type on the Moors, im not denouncing the fact the method might be more productive but thats not the point, rights to roam,access, Common s, National Parks, Environmental schemes are.,thats not excuses ,just realities.
and Outdoor wintering will poach a lot of the soils in my part of the world to shreds rendering them poor for spring growth.,which is the best time of the year for it around here also.
From what i've seen, most of the grazed areas of the hIghlands and moors are badly poached anyways, with the rest rarely or never grazed, The experiences on extensive land in other parts of the world is that stock begin (are forced) to graze areas they previously avoided, plus the land gets a bloody long rest, the effective stocking rate doesn't really go up, often it is just that more land is grazed better. I can see why this system wouldn't work on common grazing but the other excuses don't really stack up imho. I've seen the results of short during grazing with long rests and it looks like it should work.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
that wont happen surely ,because you have the rent from your houses coming in.

same as my best mate,'oh i dont need to work we can live off our 2 rental properties,' (they get about 1k a month x 2.

i then reply well them do you?oh well he says i get bored doing nothing :oops::ROFLMAO:
I have a fulltime job as well, hence destocking over the summer lets us go fishing after work or down to the rocks for a dive.
Hence the big rush to go to a better system so the kids can run the place for us, it's their farm
 

The Ruminant

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Hertfordshire
how bout Wilko?
Wilko Best Rootgrow Mycorrhizal Fungi 150g
0330967
£3.25

£ 21.67 per 1 KG

4.8
(10)


  • Increases root capacity up to 700 times in just a few months
  • For vigorous growth, better drought tolerance and more abundant flowers and fruit
  • Easy to use and one treatment lasts forever
Empathy Rootgrow 150g contains Mycorrhizal Fungi, a totally natural and friendly fungi that colonises and develops a considerably more efficient and extensive secondary root system than the plant's own. For many plants this is usually within 4 weeks and..
like wow 700 times in just ' a few 'months' 😂
I was thinking about this post while I was doing my cattle work this morning. In a way it typifies how we, as farmers, have been conditioned to think and act over the last sixty years. Someone mentions something that’s potentially very good for your crops and farm, and straight away we look to see if it’s available to buy.

Now, I accept it was done somewhat tongue in cheek by @Bury the Trash, (or at least I guess it was), but it does sum up our mentality: the solution lies in a tin.

The thing about regenerative agriculture is that, very often, the ‘tin’ is the last thing you need. Generally, the ‘tin’ (or the fertiliser bag or the expensive cattle cake) has unintended negative consequences, even if the short term benefits appear to be spectacularly positive.

Mycorrhizal fungae would be a perfect example of something that doesn’t need a ‘tin’. Leave your FYM in a heap for a year and it will start to develop humates and fulvic acid which, when applied to your ground, stimulate MF growth; add woodchip to your FYM and turn / compost it, then leave it for a year and the levels of humates and fulvic acid increase dramatically, all for “free”, and all using your own farm produce.

Someone much brighter than me said they used to wake up in the morning wondering what they had to kill that day to be a good farmer: blackgrass, intestinal worms, ragwort, thistles, etc etc. It was a constant fight with nature.

Now they wake up wondering how they are going to work with, and make use of, nature to control the thistles, why had the blackgrass appeared and what had they done wrong to their soil to cause it to become a problem, and how could they correct it, etc
 
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SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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