Pathalogical Narcassism (Control freak)and the damage it causes to family members

thats sort of what im getting at .If the condition created eratic and toxic behavior, then asigning a name /title to it might not help factually in a court proceeding but if enough people got to recognise its existense as a personality trait ,then down the line perhaps ,finding solutions would be easier for persons who come across this situation. Totally agree with a diagnosis on a professional level but being able to say that whoever is being victimised would be able to say that the behavior that has been used against them has been narcassistic Rather than haveing to explain every little aspect of strange behavior . on a comparable note ,it is easy to show someone is racist or sexist or even coercive but to explain narcassistic behavior, is quite difficult because its more an like extream case of multiple traits rolled into one and not seen my many others aside from the target
Your almost on the ball their.

Sexism or racism is relatively easy to prove because its relative between two or more fixed points of reference.

Narcissistic behavior, is not individual acts but a series of acts over a long period of time, characterized by manipulation, self serving acts, lack of insight and empathy, and very often a genuine belief that their world view, no matter how bizarre or wrong, is right.

The issue is saying its narcissistic, because individual acts which is what the law has to judge in most civil cases, rarely are on their own. TBH its something to factor in when talking to your solicitor, as it will help them frame and develop the arguments in court to present to the judge better showing how the person is carefully managing things to the detriment of their victim. (In law it would be coercive and controlling behavior in many ways). If the judge then concludes the person was narcissistic then great, but at the end of the day its just a word, and as long as justice is done, who really cares? Should you?

Plus from what I saw in an imploding family - when the narcissist is faced with reality kicking the doors to their fantasy world down, they will behave like someone high on drugs, as they mentally flail trying to create a narrative that makes the new world fit their world view, they will then implode as their behavior becomes very erratic, if not down right dangerous, because they are faced with consequences they don't actually understand/comprehend, because in their world nothing bad has happened.
 

eternal peter pan

Member
Mixed Farmer
As you said its only a word to describe a personality trait which will manifest itself differently in every case. But in describeing someones personality such as to describe them as say Happy , Angry, Difficult etc then it almost gives a quickfire amswer ,to which someone could relate too,that the majority of people relate to when describeing someone .this not being a legal terminoligy though. If someone is described as a Happy person, then the picture is most likely envisaged as a smileing person ,helpfulll , trustworthy, reliable etc . Now if they are decribed as being narcassistic even pathalogicly narcassistic ,then to those who know the condition will probaly invisage the person as useing /manipulative /coercive and self serveing their own intrest above all else. So if in a legal setting someone was said to have a pathalogical narcassist personality ,would you be able to say that or not or have to break down all the relavent traits .For example they were manipulative ,coercive, controlling etc rather than rolling it all up into just npd to save time . I understand it cannot usually be medically diognosed for reasons already said before
 

Anono-Mouse

Member
Mixed Farmer
Very interesting read having found this thread searching for help on what on earth to do with where I am.

Stuck like I suspect many working with a father with many of the traits detailed here. Even to the extreme, he finds my new-born son, his grandson and inconvenience because it reduces the hours I can work on the farm, he was very unhappy I attended the birth as men being there is a "waste of time you could be earning". We fortunately live away from the farm, but equally we could live in the house that is on the other end of the yard but he refuses, and it lays empty. He also flies into a rage when I have to drive home to help my wife with said son as again I'm wasting time. You cannot win, whatever the situation he has a response. I've long given up arguing with him, I've told him I refuse to be spoken to like a four year old. As far as I can I work the hours I want and that's it, which to be honest is an ever reducing number. I tried to resign at one point but he screamed at me to take it back else he'd make sure I never got a penny from him, the business or the property, which I do co own and pay the mortgage on. I'd really rather like my son to at least have the choice if he wants to have a go, I don't want to leave but having had 2 mental breakdowns in recent times, both requiring medical help I'm running out of ideas.
 

eternal peter pan

Member
Mixed Farmer
Very interesting read having found this thread searching for help on what on earth to do with where I am.

Stuck like I suspect many working with a father with many of the traits detailed here. Even to the extreme, he finds my new-born son, his grandson and inconvenience because it reduces the hours I can work on the farm, he was very unhappy I attended the birth as men being there is a "waste of time you could be earning". We fortunately live away from the farm, but equally we could live in the house that is on the other end of the yard but he refuses, and it lays empty. He also flies into a rage when I have to drive home to help my wife with said son as again I'm wasting time. You cannot win, whatever the situation he has a response. I've long given up arguing with him, I've told him I refuse to be spoken to like a four year old. As far as I can I work the hours I want and that's it, which to be honest is an ever reducing number. I tried to resign at one point but he screamed at me to take it back else he'd make sure I never got a penny from him, the business or the property, which I do co own and pay the mortgage on. I'd really rather like my son to at least have the choice if he wants to have a go, I don't want to leave but having had 2 mental breakdowns in recent times, both requiring medical help I'm running out of ideas.
message me direct if you want an off post conversation about things you dont want to say in the open. Haveing started this post because i stumbled across this type of personality disorder that ticks all of the box's when an issue of control is used over others to their detriment . In my case ,i thought the narc was phsycotic :- (a pshyco) That is what all the contractors nickname him for his un natural behaviour. Non of the family could explain why we were punished within the realms of what is supposed to be a family farm but is in effect a dictatorship ,such as you explain you are also experienceing
 

eternal peter pan

Member
Mixed Farmer
A lot of understanding this dissorder is actually to our own mental health as usually its the victims that have the health problems caused by the actions and behavior of the narc
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
FB_IMG_1694769283566.jpg
 
Very interesting read having found this thread searching for help on what on earth to do with where I am.

Stuck like I suspect many working with a father with many of the traits detailed here. Even to the extreme, he finds my new-born son, his grandson and inconvenience because it reduces the hours I can work on the farm, he was very unhappy I attended the birth as men being there is a "waste of time you could be earning". We fortunately live away from the farm, but equally we could live in the house that is on the other end of the yard but he refuses, and it lays empty. He also flies into a rage when I have to drive home to help my wife with said son as again I'm wasting time. You cannot win, whatever the situation he has a response. I've long given up arguing with him, I've told him I refuse to be spoken to like a four year old. As far as I can I work the hours I want and that's it, which to be honest is an ever reducing number. I tried to resign at one point but he screamed at me to take it back else he'd make sure I never got a penny from him, the business or the property, which I do co own and pay the mortgage on. I'd really rather like my son to at least have the choice if he wants to have a go, I don't want to leave but having had 2 mental breakdowns in recent times, both requiring medical help I'm running out of ideas.

That sounds toxic in the extreme. I can tell you now if I was in a situation that gave me two breakdowns I would not linger in it waiting for a third.
 

Gerbert

Member
Location
Dutch biblebelt
I have first hand experience of this.. Worked on the farm for no pay, no social life and not even in the business partnership let alone any land... He says the farm is his, yet we've all been working to pay a mortgage for 20 years....

Cant just walk away from my mother and brother
Think really hard if you want to be in this situation for years to come. If you work on a farm you probably have plenty skills, what do you like to do? Go to a company you would like to work for and are looking to hire and ask for pay. Look for a place to rent and ask the price. You now know what you have to live on can put to savings and how much more that is then now.
It'll be hell, you have to confront your family but it'll be heaven in the long run, if not for them then at least for you.

I have zero experience but boy do I feel for you.
 
So sad much of this, and i know some can act in these manners, I really feel for the likes of anono mouse. The burden and pressure and stress i know will be huge.Its a great think theres empathy here in this forum for some people
 

eternal peter pan

Member
Mixed Farmer
one day Narcassistic abuse and the damage it causes the recipient will be treated in the same way racism and sexism is today . the effects are equal if not worse that those ism,s as its usually only the sufferer that knows what the effects are .Many a time, the usuall response is to just run away from the situation .The trouble in farming situations is the damage to someone that leaveing the otherwise ideal situation is also a lifetime of psycological issues from being in effect forced out by someones damaged personality. Perhaps one day there will be recourse/legal avenue against someone who has in effect bullied controlled the victim
 

Bopperdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
easier said than done if your in buisness with them and they have the controlling stake.How many times has the phrase ' one day all this will be yours' been said ,only for it not to be . How high does the average farmers age have to get before serious coversations within the industry are had about succession planning and legal rights for those that were 'promised'.Haveing read lots about failed succesion ,perhaps there needs to be a discussion on wether npd is a major factor in most cases with the inability of the one in charge to let go ..In a marraige this behaviour would be classed as coertion and grounds for devorce. if only there was an easier way of getting out of narcassistic relationships in farming relationships without the victim becomeing even more victimised by being forced away
 

Bopperdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
Your almost on the ball their.

Sexism or racism is relatively easy to prove because its relative between two or more fixed points of reference.

Narcissistic behavior, is not individual acts but a series of acts over a long period of time, characterized by manipulation, self serving acts, lack of insight and empathy, and very often a genuine belief that their world view, no matter how bizarre or wrong, is right.

The issue is saying its narcissistic, because individual acts which is what the law has to judge in most civil cases, rarely are on their own. TBH its something to factor in when talking to your solicitor, as it will help them frame and develop the arguments in court to present to the judge better showing how the person is carefully managing things to the detriment of their victim. (In law it would be coercive and controlling behavior in many ways). If the judge then concludes the person was narcissistic then great, but at the end of the day its just a word, and as long as justice is done, who really cares? Should you?

Plus from what I saw in an imploding family - when the narcissist is faced with reality kicking the doors to their fantasy world down, they will behave like someone high on drugs, as they mentally flail trying to create a narrative that makes the new world fit their world view, they will then implode as their behavior becomes very erratic, if not down right dangerous, because they are faced with consequences they don't actually understand/comprehend, because in their world nothing bad has happened.
When people say kick him out. I say yeah and he’ll go out all guns blazing, literally. I don’t trust him that much
 

Bopperdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
its not my situation that im waiting for succesion ...Im past that now i know the reality of the situation .i am just asking the questions to find out how widespread the condition is in older generation farmers and hope to enlighten some out there who cant work out what is going on around them ...I was truly enlightened when i stumbled across the whole npd subject because up until then ,i thought the narc in my situation was phsycotic and now there is a genuine explanation for their behavior The best way to describe it is a combination of the worst bits of a toddler and geriatric combined into one personality .im actually surprised, as to how many people are now recogniseing this personality condition in situations where people wont let go and the harm that gets inflicted in the reciepients of their actions
They’re not all old. My 56 year old brother probably started showing signs at 19/20. I believe he’s autistic too, that’s why control is so important to them. I can remember my dad wanting to change his tractor and brother losing his sh!t, then a tanker, a building etc. as you can imagine 30 years later it’s only got worse.
 

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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